raise preflop early position with low/mid s.c .or p.p.?

[obi_wang]

i dont do this, but this one dude i play at b&m does this, and he wins some monster pots this way. the $3/6 game that this is at is very loose/passive, but preflop, players will call two cold easy, so most pots are still multiway. and the possible hands that might get folded out cuz of raise may be the hands with low/med cards that you'll be playing.

if you don't hit the flop, you can check/fold, so position doesnt necessarily play a huge factor, does it? by doing this, he really opens up his preflop raising range, so very hard to put on a hand. in loose/passive games where they'll call the 2bet cold enough to really make the pots huge, can this be +ev?

[Xhad]

Two major points:

-Position does matter. otb this kind of raise often gives you a free look at the turn, utg it's almost impossible.
-When you make this kind of raise OOP, it's usually adding a lot of variance for little if no immediate EV. If you're in a game where people peel to 2-outers and such regardless of the pot then it only hurts you postflop as well
-Occasionally the next guy 3bets and everyone else folds, when they would have called 2 with crap

In other words, it's a high-variance, sometimes +EV play that can backfire if you do it in the wrong situations.

[jesse8888]

[ QUOTE ]

In other words, it's a high-variance, sometimes +EV play that can backfire if you do it in the wrong situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some would call this "gambling" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I've seen players who raise with any pocket pair in any position if the pot has not yet been opened. I don't advise it, for the reasons already stated....unless you've got a couple of observant opponents at your table and you'd like them view you as less nitty, in which case you could try it now and again. If you do it though, make an effort to show your cards.

[Bob T.]

So today, live 8-16 folded to me in MP with 66, I open raise, Button and SB call.

Three to the flop. AJ5 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, button folds, SB folds 88 face up.

[jesse8888]

[ QUOTE ]
So today, live 8-16 folded to me in MP with 66, I open raise, Button and SB call.

Three to the flop. AJ5 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, button folds, SB folds 88 face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH Sir. Taking a 7 small bet pot away from two opponents from MP isn't quite what OP had in mind thought, I don't think [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PorkchopDJG]

I would do this once and while to vary your play from EP but not everytime with these speculative hands.

From MP or LP, especially in a tight/aggressive game I would either raise or fold.

Also if the game is loose/passive it's probably just better to limp anyway because the donks will cold call with any variety of cards and the hand will most likely play multiway which is what you like with hands like this.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
So today, live 8-16 folded to me in MP with 66, I open raise, Button and SB call.

Three to the flop. AJ5 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, button folds, SB folds 88 face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this all the time but that's not the situation OP was talking about.

[reutel]

I'd do this with a good table with less speculative hands (T9s + if the table is right), because you have more equity. The problem with really speculative hands is that you hurt your postflop edge. People will peel with all sorts of crap. If you bloat the pot too much, you make it correct for them to do so.

[HoneyBadger]

Why would you ever want to raise a low s.c. from early position? You're killing your hopes for a multi-way pot, and everyone who calls or raises is likely way ahead of you. Same goes for low pocket pairs. The higher pocket pairs I raise because they often hold up as the best hand. I much rather limp the low ones; you usually need to hit a set anyhow, and you rather hit it in a 5 way pot than heads-up.

The only times I do this is when the table is insane tight, and I have a pretty good chance to steal the blinds from UTG.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
You're killing your hopes for a multi-way pot, and everyone who calls or raises is likely way ahead of you. Same goes for low pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

HB, this thread is about uberloose games where this is not the case and where raising UTG is almost the same as raising from the blinds after limpers because you know you're going to get called anyway.