Does anyone habitually play 08 tourneys?

[Murakawa]

Full tilt has a nightly guaranteed tournament, for 26 buy-in. I forget how much it's guaranteed but 1st a usually a couple of thousand. Is it worth playing these? Does anyone make a lot of their poker income from tournaments in o8?

[franknagaijr]

I play a lot of PLO8 STT and MTTs, as a hobbyist. There is oodles of dead money in any given tourney, and I've found that to be true at the 22$ tourneys on Stars, so just as likely true on Tilt.

As you know, beating dead money can be pretty tough when you have to get through a bunch of 'em. A typical scenario is AA2x vs (insert awful hand here) all-in preflop.

[Truthiness24]

The donkaments can be painful. If you take the longview they are theoretically profitable. I haven't gone that long yet.

I make it my goal in every tournament every night to bust out either by being drawn on or by making a poorly timed move with a short stack. I think that is about the best you can ask for.

But in the donkaments, the nightly Stars $5.50, the $8.80, the $22, and the FT $26 (and their lower events), there is a TON of dead money to wade through. On the lower levels, if you get cards, you can outplay the donks and then use the big stack to get through to the end ... but once the blind pressure kicks in, and it does too fast, you are in too many forced coin flip situations to get an meaningfully high +EV, IMO.

That said, I have seen +EV situations. Cabana on Paradise, the one with the $20 R&A and relatively long levels, was a good one.

Keep in mind, too, that no one is going to make a poker income from $20 tourneys and below ... at least not an income that would prompt me to give up my day job.

If you are playing on this level and want to face a higher level of play, consider the dkblue plo8 privates on Stars, They usually get 2 tables and the buyins are $10 to $30. It isn't +EV, but at least you don't have to deal with the donks.

[bbartlog]

I play the $5.50 on Stars on those nights when I can afford to be up until nearly 2AM. I actually placed 5th in both of the last two I played (after nothing better than a single 18th place finish in the dozen before that), but even if you play well you need a lot of luck to make it that deep. There's not a lot of fold equity anywhere until the field is down to the last two tables, so you just need to have cards and/or the luck to outdraw people. That said, just playing tight and folding when you don't have a good situation will give you a big edge on the field.

[SmackeytheFrog]

I play O8 and PLO8 almost exclusively. I play on stars mostly, the few tourneys I've played on Fulltilt haven't shown a positive ROI yet. As stated before, I'm not quitting my day job on these 5 8 and 20 buyins, but I am definitely a winning O8 MTT player. Revlovejoy on stars if you want to look up my stats. My fulltilt name is SmackeytheFrog - I look like a donk on that site.

[Truthiness24]

[ QUOTE ]
... just playing tight and folding when you don't have a good situation will give you a big edge on the field.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, but still you have to get through SO MANY 60/40 - type races that it's really hard to win 10 or 12 of those and cash consistently. I think it's easy to cash consistently but hard to get deep.

I seem to have a positive ROI in these privates, against much stiffer competition, but I look like a donk in the larger field events. Can anyone speculate as to why?

And join us, if you like.

[bbartlog]

Can anyone speculate as to why?

Sheer variance most likely. At least I assume that by 'look like a donk' you mean 'have lost money so far' and not 'keep getting my money in as a dog'. I don't know how many large tournaments someone would have to play in order to conclude with 95% confidence that their total wins or losses were an accurate reflection of their expectation against the field, but I'm sure it's a very large number.

[Truthiness24]

Yes, I meant "lost money so far" per OPR. Since I do have a day job, I'll probably never play enough events to make a statistical conclusion respecting my own variance.

My donkament experience tends to like this:
1. Play TAG and, maybe 85% of the time, increase my stack by 50-150% by the 1st break. The rest of the time, misread or get drawn out on. I think that these are acceptable numbers.

2. During the same time, watch LAG donkeys double and triple through with hands like A59Q.

3. Continue TAG to the bubble, and continue to trail the LAG donkeys that still hold all the chips. If I'm lucky and get cards, I'll pick off a donkey or two and stack up.

4. At around the bubble, under blind pressure, I get LAG and start donkey hunting. I can also pick my spots and pick up chips from tight-weakies just trying to make the money.

5. Becuase I am usually at par or slightly below at this point, I am forced into coin flips (or more usually, 60/40 situations where I'm slightly ahead) with larger stacks. I am out of options and more often than not I can't double through twice in a 60/40, which is what it requires to have a stack at the final table.

This "feels" like optimal play. Some would say that you should go LAG the first hour to try to build a stack to swing around later, so that you aren't wasting your time just trying to make the money. Generally, top 3 or top 5 is my goal, and I'll only worry about the bubble if my stack is so small that there is no way I can get to the end.

Thoughts?

[I dunno]

Regardless of stacksize, you are going to push those 60-40 edges. If you're not then you are playing too tight, whether short, average or deepstacked. You just notice it more when you don't have a lot of chips because the losses cripple you.

From my limited experience playing these, it seems that playing LAG early on is just spewing chips (in the low buyins). There are too many people that will call down if they hit any part of the flop. You just have to look for your spots to build your stack and get your money in as an equity favorite.

[Truthiness24]

Yes, and then just deal with it if you get drawn out on. The fact that there are too many 60/40 type situations to get through to make it to the end is why the best players don't win every time, especially in O8.