Sample size and BR Requirements for limit omaha 8 or better

[Point Point]

If this subject has already been discussed before please provide some links. I haven't been much of an omaha 8 or better person. This is my first post here.

In limit holdem, the generally accepted "long run" is 80,000 hands. In NL holdem full one table SNGs, anything less than 3000 games is not statistically significant enough. In NL holdem ring games, 40,000 hands or more is the minimum than can be considered the "long run".

Question One: How many hands dealt constitutes a statistically significant sample size for Omaha Hilo split 8 or better?

In limit holdem, the standard bankroll is 500 big blinds. In no limit holdem, the standard is 20 max buy-ins. In heads up no limit holdem SNGs, its 30 buy ins.

Question 2: What is the bankroll requirement for full game cash game limit omaha hilo split 8 or better?

The expected hourly earn of a good nolimit holdem cash game player is 4 to 7 big blinds per 100 hands. In limit holdem one big bet per hour is standard. In one table SNGs its an ROI of 8 to 13 per cent.

Question 3: What can an above average player make in limit omaha 8 or better?

[Big Dave D]

No disrespect, but these BR questions aren't particularly useful. For example, if you are playing micro stakes, then who cares, as you can replenish your BR fairly easily. At the other end of the spectrum, if you are playing mega stakes, then you want to be massively over bankrolled as you wouldn't want a bad run to effectively make you broke. Mike Caro was writing this a *long* time ago.

Although you won't get much of it here, and I also won't go into it in depth, but its debatable how "accurate" the mathematical models are for BR anyway. For example, the orignal maths model that gave us 300BB for limit holdem was based on some pretty shakey assumptions.

So what I would say, is use your own rule of thumbs. If you like taking shots, take shots. If playing with too few buyins makes you nervous, get over bankrolled. Don't focus on what other people do, focus on what is best for you.

Just some corrections...the higher the stakes you go, the less your figures make sense. I think stoxtrader said he always had 1000BB for each limit; I don't think anyone ever claimed to be beating the biggest stakes of NL in the region of 4-7 BB, although the confusion around PTBB means you sometimes end up comparing apples to oranges; in limit holdem, a good win rate was 1BB+/100, not per hour.

gl

bdd

[Point Point]

Please define what you mean by "over rolled" in limit omaha split 8 or better? Specifically, how many big bets in a bankroll would meet the minimum requirement of being over rolled?

[steamboatin]

I suck at poker especially O/8 so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. The edge that a good player has over a bad player is greater in O/8 than in holdem and it is my understanding that the variance is lower in O/8 so those to factors should allow you to operate safely with a lower bankroll than required to play limit holdem.

so 500 Big Bets should be an over roll but by how much depends upon your style of play and if your regular game is loose or tight. A maniac needs a much larger bankroll than a rock.

[niss]

I find BR questions pretty much irrelevant and unanswerable. The best answer I think for O8 and particularly PLO8 is that you are underrolled if the amount of your roll causes you to play afraid/not to lose.

[HajiShirazu]

I think the BR reqs are similar to hold'em, although it depends if you play FR or 6 max. FR is probably lower variance but in 6max the variance is huge, probably just as high as hold'em.

[emiderma]

I think those variance ideas are off. The bigger the better. I just started getting into FL O8 ring games, and have played 80% 2-4 FL FH, 20% 3-6 FL FH, very basic tight strategy (less than 30% flops seen, don't leave home without A2xx/AAwx, etc.) and started with $1K, about 250 BB with 1K behind if needed. In the first 3 days I fluctuated between -$400 and +$200, and have gone as low as -$500. Mind you I am playing 4-6 tables 4-8 hours per day, approx 1K-1.5K hands/day, but the variance is still pretty high in O8, much more then I had thought.

I also believe that it will vary depending on your limit played, and the aggressiveness of your opponents. I feel 5-10 and up to have a higher variance, as players are much more aggressive, pumping their 1 way hands to max value v.s. drawing hands. Lower limits have much more calling, with players waiting till their nuts are not counterfeited before getting too much money in the pot.

"how much depends upon your style of play and if your regular game is loose or tight. A maniac needs a much larger bankroll than a rock."

The styles of your opponent’s plays are just as important as the style of your own play. Unless you are playing HU or SH O8, or against super passive opponents a 'maniac style' is a tough sell in O8.