Just Saw Sicko, Now Have Question

[Emperor]

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"40Million people" are just too lazy or stupid or worried about their next fix.

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What are you basing this on? Don't me wrong, as I typically have complete confidence in unsourced and vague allegations. It's just that there's this crazy special interest group called the United States Census Bureau that claims that of the 45 million uninsured Americans it counted in 2003, 8.4 million were children, and of the 36 million adults age 18-64 who were uninsured, 21 million (about 57%) worked full-time jobs. Another 6 million worked part-time jobs, leaving 9.7 million who didn't work at all.

Could you please provide the source of your detailed analysis so I can set these reality-based whackos at the Census Bureau straight?

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Did you miss the part where they can go to college and get health care? or the part where they can ask the local church not to send the money to zimbabwe, but to pay their insurance premium (I know plenty of churches that would love to do this, but don't see a need in the U.S.)

[bdk3clash]

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Did you miss the part where they can go to college and get health care?

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Please specify what percentage of the ~45 million uninsured Americans this arrangement would cover. I'll go ahead and assume you can knock out almost all of the 8.4 million uninsured children, save the rare Doogie Howser among them.

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...or the part where they can ask the local church not to send the money to zimbabwe, but to pay their insurance premium (I know plenty of churches that would love to do this, but don't see a need in the U.S.)

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Name one. Also, specify how many of the ~45 million uninsured Americans this arrangement would cover.

Please show your work. For extra credit, please explain why someone who works full-time but can't afford tuition or gain admission into a college or university that provides health insurance, and has yet to stumble into an as-yet-unspecified church that provides health insurance is "just too lazy or stupid or worried about their next fix."

[Emperor]

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Did you miss the part where they can go to college and get health care?

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Please specify what percentage of the ~45 million uninsured Americans this arrangement would cover. I'll go ahead and assume you can knock out almost all of the 8.4 million uninsured children, save the rare Doogie Howser among them.

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...or the part where they can ask the local church not to send the money to zimbabwe, but to pay their insurance premium (I know plenty of churches that would love to do this, but don't see a need in the U.S.)

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Name one. Also, specify how many of the ~45 million uninsured Americans this arrangement would cover.


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Use a phonebook, there are millions.

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Please show your work. For extra credit, please explain why someone who works full-time but can't afford tuition or gain admission into a college or university that provides health insurance, and has yet to stumble into an as-yet-unspecified church that provides health insurance is "just too lazy or stupid or worried about their next fix."

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Explain why they're not...

[John Spartan]

BDk3clash,

This basically sums it up:



FWIW, you're not gonna anywhere debating this with people like Emperor. They ignore the points you make, choosing to throw barbs and when you ask them for evidence to back up their ridiculous assertions, they insist that you're the one who has to prove their assertions wrong. I know this kid still lives with mommy and daddy.

[Emperor]

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BDk3clash,

This basically sums it up:



FWIW, you're not gonna anywhere debating this with people like Emperor. They ignore the points you make, choosing to throw barbs and when you ask them for evidence to back up their ridiculous assertions, they insist that you're the one who has to prove their assertions wrong. I know this kid still lives with mommy and daddy.

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No worries, I am praying for you.

[bdk3clash]

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Did you miss the part where they can go to college and get health care?

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Please specify what percentage of the ~45 million uninsured Americans this arrangement would cover. I'll go ahead and assume you can knock out almost all of the 8.4 million uninsured children, save the rare Doogie Howser among them.

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...or the part where they can ask the local church not to send the money to zimbabwe, but to pay their insurance premium (I know plenty of churches that would love to do this, but don't see a need in the U.S.)

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Name one. Also, specify how many of the ~45 million uninsured Americans this arrangement would cover.


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Use a phonebook, there are millions.

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Well, I am of the belief that the statement you made (that there are "plenty of churches that would love to [pay health insurance premiums for someone] but don't see a need in the U.S.") is not true. Surely of the "millions" (!) of churches dying to tackle this multi-billion dollar dilemma (that they have mysteriously remained unfamiliar with) there is one that you know of and can share with us here.

By the way, I hope it's reasonable to assume that you know plenty of churches that would love to do this is. I say this because you wrote:

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I know plenty of churches that would love to do this...

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Please show your work. For extra credit, please explain why someone who works full-time but can't afford tuition or gain admission into a college or university that provides health insurance, and has yet to stumble into an as-yet-unspecified church that provides health insurance is "just too lazy or stupid or worried about their next fix."

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Explain why they're not...

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Well, I'll try to address your claims one by one. First off, I would need specific evidence of someone being "too lazy" or "stupid" or "worried about their next fix" to reasonably conclude that they are any of the above. Granted, your assertion that all of the 45 million who lack health insurance (including the elderly, infirm, children, etc.) are in fact "too lazy" or "stupid" or "worried about their next fix" is compelling evidence, but there are nitpickers among us who might insist on, you know, evidence (anecdotal or otherwise.)

Possessing a full-time job leads me to conclude that someone is not particularly likely to be "too lazy" to acquire health insurance if it were available to them, nor that the reason they don't have health insurance is that they're "worried about their next fix." I suppose one could quibble about the meaning of these words, and of "stupid," but in the absence of evidence I'd say remaining agnostic is about as far as a reasonable person should be willing to go.

[El Diablo]

All,

Locking this one now, think the discussion has run its course. Of course, feel free to start followup healthcare discussion threads, especially if you want to have discussion on any specific sub-points in this thread.