So I'm getting screwed by a bookie. Ideas?

[limon]

[ QUOTE ]
Dali,

My unofficial advice:

Get in touch with the guy directly. Do whatever it takes to make this happen. Be creative.

Do whatever it takes -- call from a payphone; have an intermediary make a bet that you plan to lose, schedule a meet to pay, and interrupt the meet; show up at his place of reputable business, whatever you can do.

When you do, bring a friend, the kind of friend you'd like to do this sort of thing with. Do not show up alone.

Calmly but clearly explain that you'd like to receive your money, and that you're more than happy to work out a payment plan.

Do not try to get cute and roll him for vig.

Propose he can drop you 20k a week for the next four weeks, for example, and you'll be more than happy.

Collect the first payment, or at least a down payment on the first payment, right there.

-P

[/ QUOTE ]

as someone who knows both sides well, this is the best and only way to go.

[Performify]

There's a lot of really bad advice in this thread, and I'd really not like it to keep up even though some of it is funny.

Doing anything overtly illegal is a very bad idea. Directly threatening the guy is not a great idea. Attempting any sort of physical violence or thuggery in Dali's position is almost ludicrous.


Chase it as much as its worth to you. Don't take it any farther than you have to, and don't try to be a hero or think that the law or anything else is on your side. You're already in criminal territory and the last thing you want to do is descend any farther there.

You have one option -- verbal confrontation, ideally in their place of legitimate business. You have to try to be reasonable and get what you can. In your case I'd settle for $.50 on the dollar in payment plans from the guy if you could get it at this point. 5k a week for four weeks and you'll let him off the hook. Otherwise you'll be in his offices twice a day.

Pay back your investors at the same 50% rate, and learn the lesson of how bad an idea it was to try to run a syndicate pushing a rogue line on wong teasers through a local.

So far, the sweater is the second best idea. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


-P

[NajdorfDefense]

I don't understand, assuming this guy lays off risk with other local bookies, why not factor the debt to them? He can ignore you but he has to lay off risk with *somebody* and for 50 cents on the dollar I bet they gladly withhold whatever 'hedges' he wins from them until they collect your debt for themselves.

[If he doesn't hedge, this obvs does not apply.]

As Perf says, take whatever reasonable solution you can get.

[Performify]

Naj,

All locals hedge if they know what they're doing. They'll take unbalanced action to a point, but they're usually going to shift some of it, somewhere, sometime.

Big problem is its hard for them to lay off teaser money, especially with what Dali was doing. RR'ing six teams a week, you really think the guy's going to go through and figure out how to best lay that action off? Not to mention that he can't effectively since he's offering a MUCH better price than the market, even if he wanted to...

Point is, no other locals are going to want to get involved with this.

Not to mention, you're not going to be able to find someone he has a relationship with to begin with, and even if you could, they're not going to want to get involved. If they're doing business together it's not something they're going to disrupt on the word of some random guy who claims he's owed 80k (not that i'm doubting, but again its not like you have documentation).

What are you envisioning? Dali working the rounds trying to find another local, asking them if they know Mr. X, and then telling them that Mr. X owes me 80k would you like to buy it off?

Dali,

You really don't want to go trying to sell this debt off. The _only_ way to effectively do so would be to sell it to your local version of "Grammar" and move further in to the criminal / thuggery world. Which you don't want to do here, ldo.

Your only option is verbal confrontation, ideally in the legit place of business, and intimidation / settlement. But don't dream of pushing too hard, as 80k is more than enough for someone to get desperate.

This whole situation is essentially someone complaining about a cancelled bet on a rogue line.

I don't want to be too harsh, Dali. But you knew 6-point 2-team teasers at +100 was a rogue line these days, and instead of trying to milk it gently you put together a mini-syndicate and pounded it. You certainly didn't deserve to get stiffed, but its not surprising at all you'd get cut off. Depending on how quickly you ramped up your action, sounds like you may have caught him offguard with your winrate and how much he'd owe so quickly. Unless he's really stupid, he's probably not busto and is just trying to screw you over directly. Take the recommended action, you're likely to get some of "your" money, maybe even most of it if you play your cards right.

This sort of thing is VERY common with winning bettors in the local world unless you build a relationship with your local. If you have a good relationship with them, if you generally help them balance their books / etc, you'd be surprised at how well they'll treat you.

If you find an edge (hugely stale line, mispriced teasers, whatever) and try to absolutely hammer it, don't be surprised when your action gets cut / you get stiffed / you get a visit.


-P

[lowroller]

You are not seeing any money until you look this guy in the eye. He may be bust, but he probably isn't. He knows you're a thousand miles away, and he may think the only info you have on him is a phone #. That is why he isn't picking up the phone. In effect, he is saying "what are you going to do about it?".

He is taking a shot at not paying you, plain and simple.

Show this guy you are serious about getting paid. Take some of that money you've beat him out of and hop on a plane. Go to his business or wherever you can find him. It may be as simple as walking into his office, or you may have to "get creative" as one poster put it.

When you find him, ask him what his position is.

He will tell you.

More than likely you will get some sob story, but he is going to tell you one of three things:

1. He's not paying. Period.

2. He pays you in full on the spot.

3. He gives you a story that he doesn't have the money, but wants to pay you.


Most likely, you are going to get #3 or some variant thereof. You are going to have to guage his sincerity though, because when you corner someone who owes you they will ALWAYS tell you that you are going to get paid.

Your meeting and conversation with this guy is going to dictate how you handle this situation.

[lowroller]

Another important thing to do is to act swiftly!

In my experience, the longer the money is owed, the tougher it is to collect.

[EC10]

daliman give me 5k and i'll beat him up* for you

*buy him a beer

[Henry17]

[ QUOTE ]
Doing anything overtly illegal is a very bad idea. Directly threatening the guy is not a great idea. Attempting any sort of physical violence or thuggery in Dali's position is almost ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming his position is having a family? My understanding is that there is a decent amount of distance between Dali and the bookie. I don't really see the bookie striking back as a likely outcome. Esp since if I'm reading correctly the bookie is not actually bust he is just choosing not to pay.

I myself wouldn't hesitate but I'm also don't have any of OP's considerations. I also know that I have someone who would deal with it that I can trust and that nothing would come back on me. That being said I'm pretty sure OP has made it clear he is not interested in doing down this road so my advice is just to write it off and don't use a bookie in the future. There is no way the guy is going to pay without coercion.

How do the investors feel about the situation?

[wiper]

if i lived within a short drive of this guy, and had info, i may've been interested in seeing how much I could get out of him...

i'm broke, half of what i get back sounds delicious.. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[hogua]

Bookies understand two things money and force. I wouldn't threaten him with anything unless you can/will back it up.

That said, before you threaten him, try to get him on a payment plan, which should include juice on what he owes you.

You may need to bring/hire some muscle for show, but I'd hold off on that if possible.

Approach him as one professional to another. Remind him that his business is based on trust and that if people heard he doesn't pay, that his business would be over.

He holds the power here, so don't push him too far. Make it easy on him to agree to your terms, but make sure the terms are yours ($x paid per week with 2% weekly vig on the principle, etc).

This is where having him think you have muscle on your side can go a long way. Because once he agrees, he'll need a bit of incentive to honor the deal. If you talk to him with three big dudes standing behind you, he will remember. Of course he won't know if these guys are freinds of your or just three guys you met at the gym and gave $100 each to have them stand behind you.