Could a reciever stop the clock by throwing the ball OOB?

[Dudd]

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Here comes a semi-related tangent:

In Indiana, high school basketball is played without a shot clock. Lots of people here hate zone defense. If you haven't lived here this probably won't make sense to you, but just ake my word for it. Old men will sometimes start fights at pickup games if someone tries to play zone.

Every couple years some HS coach will decide that they are going to going stall rather than face a zone defense. They instruct their PG to hold the ball until the other team comes out of the zone defense. The opposing team never does so they just stand there for an entire quarter before taking the last shot. The process is repeated in quarters 2 and 3.


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That happened to me in a pickup game against girls. At ND, there's a large coed basketball tournament, and usually girls teams and bad guys teams just get drunk and have fun in the first round. Somehow we played a serious girls team, and not wanting to kill them and actually have to move on defense, we just played a zone and gave them any jump shot they wanted. Halfway through the game, their point guard refused to bring the ball up the court until we switched to man to man. After about a five minute standoff with us just standing there and her team trying to talk sense into her, we finally switched to man, blocked them like 4 possessions in a row, and then switched back to zone. In conclusion, Indiana is strange.

[polkaface]

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And as for the OP, I don't see why not, as long as they throw the ball backwards (so it is a lateral).

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No, I think this was answered just a few posts above yours by Bedreviter. Until he posted that I was sure you could, say in the throes of a defender, chuck the ball backwards out of bounds and stop the clock. It would be a pretty alert play, honestly, but maybe the reason we haven't seen it is because it is in fact against the rules.

The false start the clock away loophole is pretty disturbing. I don't think a coach would ever try it though for fear of the backlash.

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Someone will eventually do it.

Here comes a semi-related tangent:

In Indiana, high school basketball is played without a shot clock. Lots of people here hate zone defense. If you haven't lived here this probably won't make sense to you, but just take my word for it. Old men will sometimes start fights at pickup games if someone tries to play zone.

Every couple years some HS coach will decide that they are going to going stall rather than face a zone defense. They instruct their PG to hold the ball until the other team comes out of the zone defense. The opposing team never does so they just stand there for an entire quarter before taking the last shot. The process is repeated in quarters 2 and 3.

In the 4th quarter, one team finds itself ahead by a score of like 6-2 or something. If the Zone team is on defense and down, they will come out of the zone because they have no choice. If the the anti-zone team is down and has the ball they are forced to try to attack the zone.

Its pretty lame but it happens when ego maniacal coaches put themselves above the game. The false start loophole will eventually be similarly exploited.

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Happens a lot still. Even vs a man defense a team with a lead might go 4 corners and run 2 or 3 minutes off before attempting a shot. I've seen teams go into that 4 corner stall passing game with 4 minutes left before getting fouled with 1:30 left. Defensive team had to rack up more fouls to get the other team into the bonus and wanted to make sure it still had time to do something afterward.

[vhawk01]

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And as for the OP, I don't see why not, as long as they throw the ball backwards (so it is a lateral).

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No, I think this was answered just a few posts above yours by Bedreviter. Until he posted that I was sure you could, say in the throes of a defender, chuck the ball backwards out of bounds and stop the clock. It would be a pretty alert play, honestly, but maybe the reason we haven't seen it is because it is in fact against the rules.

The false start the clock away loophole is pretty disturbing. I don't think a coach would ever try it though for fear of the backlash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone will eventually do it.

Here comes a semi-related tangent:

In Indiana, high school basketball is played without a shot clock. Lots of people here hate zone defense. If you haven't lived here this probably won't make sense to you, but just take my word for it. Old men will sometimes start fights at pickup games if someone tries to play zone.

Every couple years some HS coach will decide that they are going to going stall rather than face a zone defense. They instruct their PG to hold the ball until the other team comes out of the zone defense. The opposing team never does so they just stand there for an entire quarter before taking the last shot. The process is repeated in quarters 2 and 3.

In the 4th quarter, one team finds itself ahead by a score of like 6-2 or something. If the Zone team is on defense and down, they will come out of the zone because they have no choice. If the the anti-zone team is down and has the ball they are forced to try to attack the zone.

Its pretty lame but it happens when ego maniacal coaches put themselves above the game. The false start loophole will eventually be similarly exploited.

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Happens a lot still. Even vs a man defense a team with a lead might go 4 corners and run 2 or 3 minutes off before attempting a shot. I've seen teams go into that 4 corner stall passing game with 4 minutes left before getting fouled with 1:30 left. Defensive team had to rack up more fouls to get the other team into the bonus and wanted to make sure it still had time to do something afterward.

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I would imagine this tactic would lead to a lot of HARD fouls.

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
Here comes a semi-related tangent:

In Indiana, high school basketball is played without a shot clock. Lots of people here hate zone defense. If you haven't lived here this probably won't make sense to you, but just take my word for it. Old men will sometimes start fights at pickup games if someone tries to play zone.

Every couple years some HS coach will decide that they are going to going stall rather than face a zone defense. They instruct their PG to hold the ball until the other team comes out of the zone defense. The opposing team never does so they just stand there for an entire quarter before taking the last shot. The process is repeated in quarters 2 and 3.

In the 4th quarter, one team finds itself ahead by a score of like 6-2 or something. If the Zone team is on defense and down, they will come out of the zone because they have no choice. If the the anti-zone team is down and has the ball they are forced to try to attack the zone.

Its pretty lame but it happens when ego maniacal coaches put themselves above the game. The false start loophole will eventually be similarly exploited.

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LOL, this is awesome. Must be a ton of fun for the people in the stands to watch. I know Indiana is the Home of high school hoops, maybe they're staunch traditionalists and that's why they don't have a shot clock.

Reminds me of my pickup leagues, some teams will be up 4-5 with a minute or two left and will go into stall mode. WTF, we're not even playing for anything but pride but there they are, passing it around the perimeter. So retarded, argh.

Back to your topic, the hate for zone is pretty hilarious. Learn how to break the zone or lobby to make it illegal.

[train.]

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if a runner goes out of bounds running towards his own end zone -- that does not stop the clock.

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wtf? whatchutalkinboutwillis?

[train.]

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the running back breaks through the secondary and is in the clear for a TD with less than ten seconds left and no timeouts?

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the clock might run out but the play doesn't end unitl the player is downed, OOB or scores. why would he step OOB for a chance at a chip shot when he's open for a sure score?

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here comes a semi-related tangent:

In Indiana, high school basketball is played without a shot clock. Lots of people here hate zone defense. If you haven't lived here this probably won't make sense to you, but just take my word for it. Old men will sometimes start fights at pickup games if someone tries to play zone.

Every couple years some HS coach will decide that they are going to going stall rather than face a zone defense. They instruct their PG to hold the ball until the other team comes out of the zone defense. The opposing team never does so they just stand there for an entire quarter before taking the last shot. The process is repeated in quarters 2 and 3.

In the 4th quarter, one team finds itself ahead by a score of like 6-2 or something. If the Zone team is on defense and down, they will come out of the zone because they have no choice. If the the anti-zone team is down and has the ball they are forced to try to attack the zone.

Its pretty lame but it happens when ego maniacal coaches put themselves above the game. The false start loophole will eventually be similarly exploited.

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LOL, this is awesome. Must be a ton of fun for the people in the stands to watch. I know Indiana is the Home of high school hoops, maybe they're staunch traditionalists and that's why they don't have a shot clock.

Reminds me of my pickup leagues, some teams will be up 4-5 with a minute or two left and will go into stall mode. WTF, we're not even playing for anything but pride but there they are, passing it around the perimeter. So retarded, argh.

Back to your topic, the hate for zone is pretty hilarious. Learn how to break the zone or lobby to make it illegal.

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No shot clock in MN or WI either, at least there wasn't as of a couple years ago. I know MN was experimenting with it in some of the preseason tournies but I don't think they decided to implement it. There are inevitably a few teams that play the "its better to lose 6-2 than 84-26" card and sometimes luckbox upset wins. Its boring as hell to watch but can you really blame them for doing the only thing they can to try and wni?

[MicroBob]

yeah, I thought most high-schools still didn't use the shot-clock in hoops although I guess some states might.

The 4-corners and other stall stuff was used by Dean Smith with way more time than 6 mins left. Back in the day they would start it much earlier than that.

I watched the record for the longest college basketball game when I was a kid. 1982 or so UC at Bradley. Typically, whichever team won the tipoff would just hold the ball for afive minutes for a final shot. Hit it and you win...miss it and you just go to the next OT.
There were a couple of OT's where one of the teams got crazy and actually made a basket just 2 mins into the OT or something...then the other team made a basket...and then the stalling would just be for the last 1:30 or so.

It was way past my bedtime and my Mom demanded that I go to sleep but allowed me to stay up until the end of the game. HA HA!! I got to stay up pretty damn late!!!

UC had done some other similar strategy a couple times. I believe one game they played Patrick Ewing and #1 Georgetown and UC slowed the game enough to hang in there. They eventually lost 23-16 or something ridiculous.

And not many people know that the story of the actual team from the movie Hoosiers, the Milan Indians, featured a weird stall-tactic in the championship game.
Milan was DOWN by 6 with like 6 or 7 minutes left and they went into stall-mode. Their coach said he couldn't figure out anything better to do. So even though they were trailing he had his star played just hold the ball. And South Bend was naturally happy to let them keep the clock ticking away.


I, for one, like all the weirdness that can ensue from stall-ball and Indiana-style no-shot-clock basketball.

Miami, Ohio would pride themselves on their defense in the Ron Harper pre-shot-clock era.
Some team would be down by 8 with 8 minutes left and couldn't find an open-shot against Miami's zone-D and would keep passing around for 2 minutes or longer and the crowd would be going crazy as the defense kept hustling to interfere with any openings.

[MicroBob]

Regarding the illegal procedure penalty situation:

Can a team decline the penalty to stop the clock somehow? OR does the rule change in the last 2 minutes perhaps? This seems to obvious to not have been tried yet.

Regarding the idea of being able to only take so many penalties before you get backed up all the way:
Not so. If it is correct that the clock really does keep running then once you got back to your own end-zone they would just mark-off half the distance to the goal-line as they always do.
So once you get to your one-inch line they back you up to the one-half-inch line I believe.
So you can just keep committing the same illegal-procedure penalties while lining-up in your own end-zone. No biggie.

Either that or MAYBE you take a safety or something. Not sure.

If the understanding of the rule is correct on here I'm amazed this isn't used in games all the time.

[train.]

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if a runner goes out of bounds running towards his own end zone -- that does not stop the clock.

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wtf? whatchutalkinboutwillis?

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I was thinking of "his own end zone" as the end zone where he would score. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

i didn't know running out of bounds "backwards" wouldn't stop the clock tho.