Crossfit FAQ

[Thremp]

So I'm talking to Smiley the other day about what to do after my current EDT mesocycle (I might do 2-3 months depending on how I feel. I am a little over half done with the intro phase. I'll see how long I like it... but I digress...) He suggests that I look at crossfit and do a couple of the WOD. I think Crossfit is mostly ghey, but whatev some of the stuff works and I can't really fault anyone who just wants to go into the gym and max hang cleans one day so I decide to look. I got lost looking for a gym in my area (Do they let you do your own workout at these places?) and was not really about to find just a generic breakdown of all their girly named workouts so that I could pick and choose a cycle to do... So I started reading the FAQ. I found a few really sweat gems in there that I think should be up for discussion. All the following are direct quotes:

1)9. Optimizing physical capacity requires training at unsustainable intensities.
10. The world's most successful athletes and coaches rely on exercise science the way deer hunters rely on the accordion." (NB: This was taken from 10 Observations by "Coach")

2)Here is a hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
1. Bodybuilding on steroids
2. CrossFitting on steroids
3. CrossFitting without steroids
4. Bodybuilding without steroids

3)Natural bodybuilders (the natural ones that are not on steroids) never approach the mass that our ahtletes do. They don't come close.

NB: I remembered why I don't like Crossfit. Pull-ups are the new all-body squat with leg drive, spasming, and then pulling up. Since obviously thats what we do in real life, climb walls. Not like I actually sit at a computer all day gambling on the internet and lift for looks and my ego which are inter-related.

[maniacut]

I like Crossfit. I think the program is really good at what it's supposed to do, which is improve athletic performance. Only thing I disagree with is [ QUOTE ]
10. The world's most successful athletes and coaches rely on exercise science the way deer hunters rely on the accordion." (NB: This was taken from 10 Observations by "Coach")

[/ QUOTE ]

Successful athletes and coaches would be really dumb to not be looking at exercise science all the time. So I don't see how they could ignore it like a deer hunter would ignore an accordion.

The hierarchy of training for mass is most likely correct and backed by their own observations.

I like kipping pullups even though my form sucks right now. The science behind them is pretty solid, basically because time is decreased and mass and distance stasy the same, your power output goes up.

And you're right we do sit at our computers most of the day so why go to the gym anyway? To see positive results in whatever our goals may be. Crossfit is good at producing positive results.

[Thremp]

[ QUOTE ]
The hierarchy of training for mass is most likely correct and backed by their own observations.

I like kipping pullups even though my form sucks right now. The science behind them is pretty solid, basically because time is decreased and mass and distance stasy the same, your power output goes up.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) I have no clue where this comes from with their "observations" most of the very elite crossfitters like military special forces guys are rather small. I'd like to see some that compete and how they do before they just say you can become huge.

2) No one disputes this, but its the same as saying cheat curls are better than regular curls or cheat anything. Its just a cheat movement to bring in the rest of your body which increases power. It's a great way to increase your rep range if you aren't strong enough to do a ton, but trying to push it as "real life practical". Ew.

[SmileyEH]

I think Coach is exaggerating somewhat when he says crossfit is better for putting on mass than bodybuilding workouts. I'm sure a properly designed program by Thibedeau or similar would put on mass faster than the WOD (especially the WOD's of a year ago and older). But mostly he's just attacking the isolation centric/only nature of mainstream bodybuilding. You'll probably agree that most effective bodybuilding (or any type of training) regimes starts with squats/deads/presses. But at that point they're not far off from Crossfit anyway.

His other arguement stems from the "neuroendecrine respone" brought about by all the full body high intensity workouts. I'm not sure exactly what that means - maybe J. Brown or others more heavily into crossfit can elaborate. Glassman claims that it mimics the effect of steroids on the body.

Also, I'd take issue that elite crossfiters are all smallish. Granted none of them are going to be hooge (especially considering they are probably eating strict zone and never have bulking/cutting cycles), but I'm sure there are many 6' 200lb crossfiters with <10% bf. Video of "Crossfit Games" Some of these guys are pretty big imo.

Additionally crossfit doesn't mean only the WOD. I used to read the forums a lot, and many guys do strength/size focused programs with 3 powerlifting/o-lifting days a week, and 2-3 crossfit girls type workouts a week. One member AnthonyB is I think well over 200lbs and < 6', but he can still do Fran in 4 minutes or something.

As for it's claim to produce high performance I think the results from their competition this summer are pretty convincing. The guy that won had these results:

"Hopper Workout" - 13:39:
row 1000m
5 rounds of:
25 pullups
7 135lb push jerks

5k trail run - 20:45

Crossfit Total (sum of back squat, deadlift, standing shoulder press): 905lbs - probably broken down something like squat: 325, dl: 425, press: 160.

There are very very few people that could get anywhere close to all three results.

Josh Everett (Olympic lifter) did the hopper in 14:14, but had a total of 1133lbs - at a bw of < 190lbs that is strong no matter what your background.

[Thremp]

Smiley,

I don't doubt that it's an "athletic" type program that mixes and matches all aspects, but I doubt the results are better than anything put together by other coaches for similar programs. Its the "one size fits all" approach that I detest about crossfit.

There are definitely some huge dudes out there. But I can't speculate why they are that big, if its due to crossfit or whatnot. Also its completely a performance oriented program since there are very elite crossfitters who look terrible.

Out of curiosity, when they say standing shoulder press... Do they mean a push press or just a regular standing shoulder press with strict form? I wonder why they wouldn't say that push presses >>>> regular presses since power output is so much higher.

[SmileyEH]

It's a standing press - no leg drive allowed. I don't know why they chose it - probably because it's a little more functional than bench press.

[kickpushcoast]

If you re looking for a good alternative to crossfit I would recommend rosstraining(www.rosstraining.com).

I've been doing ross' style of training and occasional crossfit workouts for the last 6 months or so and after years of bodybuilding and powerlifting style training i'm definitely in the best shape of my life. If someone's goal is to be athletic and well conditioned rosstraining or crossfit will put you miles ahead of someone doing bodybuilding style workouts and doing their cardio on the elliptical(most people doing conventional weight training just dont work out very hard).

I have some beef with crossfit, but not regarding kipping pull ups, I think kipping pull ups are great as a metacon exercise(if you can do enough of them).

One thing I don't like about crossfit is using olympic lifts with high reps as part of a conditioning circuit. Olympic lifts are so technique based and place really high demands on the nervous system that doing them while fatigued seems to go against what they're all about(using your body as a whole to generate a short explosive force).

I love their "cindy" and "fran" workouts(if you can perform well on these 2 workouts you're in pretty damn good shape) as well as their pull up ladder workout. I'd rather add selective conditioning workouts to my strength training schedule than totally subscribe to their program.