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  #1  
Old 10-18-2006, 01:18 AM
CLB CLB is offline
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Location: Breaking even at $200NL
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Default Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

Villian in this hand (UTG+1) hasn't done anything particularly out of line since I've been at the table, although I'm multi-tabling and may have missed a move or two. It's the first time I've played with him. I've been PF raising more than usual - probably around 15+% or so - because the table is so tight, and if he's paying attention I should seem taggish. We've tangled a few times recently. I took a decent pot away from him by CR AI on the turn in one case and I took another one away from him with a good sized raise on the turn. I've also checked down a few hands with him to keep from looking like too much of a maniac. Then this hand came along...

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $26.50
UTG+1: $79.60
MP1: $37.85
Hero: $70.70
MP3: $53.95
CO: $7
Button: $47.70
SB: $65.10
BB: $30

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3</font>, 6 folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $7.5</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($16.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $15.25</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero...?


<font color="black"> This feels like raise or fold to me. If I call here what do I do if he fires a PSB on the turn?</font>
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2006, 01:48 AM
ZingyDNA ZingyDNA is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

Your pre raise I don't like. Too aggro for FR. He(and prolly yourself) put you in limbo with that miniraise. On flop I go allin hoping he has AK/AA but ur screwed if he has KK/QQ or much less likely AJ.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2006, 02:11 AM
kongs kongs is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

Very scary flop after the reraise PF. Do you have any reads on him? Has he reraised preflop before? Did you see what he had when he did? Usually when I get reraised pf by someone who hasn't done it before I put them on QQ-AA and AKs sometimes. I would fold this hand with such a draw heavy board plus the likelihood that he already has a set. If he has Aces that would be best for you, but he still has a gun shot straight and a possible backdoor flush.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2006, 03:57 AM
redCashion redCashion is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

This is a definite fold preflop. Calling a raise with KQ is going to cost you alot of money over the long haul. And fold on the flop, I see 3 likely hands that he has and 2 of them have you crushed.
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2006, 04:10 AM
Weatherhead03 Weatherhead03 is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

Maybe i'm wrong but I dont agree with any of the advice given other than fold PF to the RR.

UTG+1 limps behind a limper and basically min-raises. I would think this is some sort of donkey move fairly often here. When it isnt a trash hand I can only see it being AA.

You are only behind KK/QQ/TT/AJ. I highly doubt he does this with QQ/TT/AJ and believe that he does this with AA or trash a large % of the time.

I push.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2006, 05:50 AM
KdB KdB is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

A limp rr and a minraise both mean a very strong hand imo. If his range is QQ(1) KK (1) AA(6) and AK(8) we're behind 2 of those hands and ahead of 14(!). And when we're ahead it is highly likely he likes his hand with an overpair or TPTK.

In one of those situations, when he has AsKs, he's got a reasonable chance to draw out on us, but the other 13 hands could only improve with the last 2 or 3 aces.

I would just call, he'll probably hang himself on the turn and he might lay down his hand if we push right now.

If he flopped a set so be it, but I'll be glad to play for stacks here.
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2006, 06:29 AM
Slava_sky Slava_sky is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

OK, you raised 6-max hand, because people are tight. But that same tight people reraised you! They told "I have QQ-AA, come on, fishy!".
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2006, 06:53 AM
Jigsaws Jigsaws is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

Fold preflop, push here, lose to KK, standard.

Read http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=6454057.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2006, 06:58 AM
Jon Marlow Jon Marlow is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop, push here, lose to KK, standard.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2006, 11:34 AM
CLB CLB is offline
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Default Re: Flopped top 2 after being CRed preflop

I'll gladly concede that I shouldn't have called PR. At the time I conviced myself that he was tired of me raising and wanted to keep me in line.

On the flop, I'm surprised that more people don't agree with KdB:

[ QUOTE ]
A limp rr and a minraise both mean a very strong hand imo. If his range is QQ(1) KK (1) AA(6) and AK(8) we're behind 2 of those hands and ahead of 14(!). And when we're ahead it is highly likely he likes his hand with an overpair or TPTK.

In one of those situations, when he has AsKs, he's got a reasonable chance to draw out on us, but the other 13 hands could only improve with the last 2 or 3 aces.

I would just call, he'll probably hang himself on the turn and he might lay down his hand if we push right now.

If he flopped a set so be it, but I'll be glad to play for stacks here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I narrowed his range down to QQ-AA. I didn't really consider AK as a possible holding...I don't think you see many players limp-raise AK pf. AJ also seemed unlikely. Didn't really take the flush draw into account.

Just based on the fact that 2 Qs and 2 Ks are exposed to me, AA becomes the hand that he most likely has. Only 1 combo each of Qs and Ks for 2 hands that dominate me vs. 6 combos of As that I'm way ahead of.

Since the board was so drawy, I thought I might not be able to get much more out of him if another broadway or spade hit.

I pushed...he called. QQ, I lose. No biggie, I'd feel alot worse if I thought that my flop play was poor but I still feel like my read/line was pretty sound. Most of you seem to disagree - am I overvaluing the fact that there are only 2 possible QQ/KK hands out there?
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