4/8 Live: Checking AA on the flop w/ connected board - Page 2

Niediam · #11 06-15-2007, 12:37 AM

Your play would be ok if the expected bet would give from late position but it's likely that UTG is going to lead the turn so nobody is forced to call two bets cold.

BigBadBabar · #12 06-15-2007, 12:40 AM

yea i mean sshe used to apply to online games but online has gotten a lot tougher across the board. sshe applies pretty perfectly today to 4/8 live imo but hepfap not as much. 2/4 online today is roughly equal to 20/40 live and is probably tougher than a 20/40 online game was two years ago! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

atnels · #13 06-15-2007, 12:47 AM

I agree. If Hero checks the flop and a brick falls on the turn, the best possible scenario would be for checks again to the Hero and then UTG c/r... which would be an excellent line on his part if he does have QQ+. Now the field is facing 5:1 and lots of stuff can no longer correctly call.

I totally agree that this is probably not going to happen and simply betting the flop is the best option. More likely is probably UTG betting the turn, a bunch of calls - and even maybe a raise - and the hero facing two cold.

Again, the whole point of my post was trying to understand a concept I did not understand (and it seems like all the people who responded agree with me on the line... so I'm still not sure where HEfAP is coming from...).

atnels · #14 06-15-2007, 12:50 AM

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2/4 online today is roughly equal to 20/40 live and is probably tougher than a 20/40 online game was two years ago! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes me want to cry...

BigBadBabar · #15 06-15-2007, 01:01 AM

us too, don't worry!! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] wish i had the money for 20/40 live, lol

bernie · #16 06-15-2007, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your play would be ok if the expected bet would give from late position but it's likely that UTG is going to lead the turn so nobody is forced to call two bets cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

'Effective odds' on the turn. They don't have to call 2 cold for the move to work.

That said, I'd bet hoping to get c/r. Might call so then I can wait and blast the turn on a safe card.

b

StrictlyStrategy · #17 06-15-2007, 06:39 AM

Define your hand for <4 small bets on the flop.

Here:

You check behind, a red eight comes, there's a bet and a raise and it's on you.

You're folding now?

Niediam · #18 06-15-2007, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. If Hero checks the flop and a brick falls on the turn, the best possible scenario would be for checks again to the Hero and then UTG c/r... which would be an excellent line on his part if he does have QQ+. Now the field is facing 5:1 and lots of stuff can no longer correctly call.

I totally agree that this is probably not going to happen and simply betting the flop is the best option. More likely is probably UTG betting the turn, a bunch of calls - and even maybe a raise - and the hero facing two cold.

Again, the whole point of my post was trying to understand a concept I did not understand (and it seems like all the people who responded agree with me on the line... so I'm still not sure where HEfAP is coming from...).

[/ QUOTE ]

HEPFAP is saying that when you hold a vulnerable hand in a large pot it may be correct to pass up on flop equity if being able to protect your hand on the turn increases your overall EV. The concept is also discussed in SSH on p. 163-5

Hair_of_the_Dog · #19 06-15-2007, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your play would be ok if the expected bet would give from late position but it's likely that UTG is going to lead the turn so nobody is forced to call two bets cold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. You are just too far away from the UTG (the mostly like lead bettor) to be able to raise with much effect. EP affords you this option much more than MP or LP. It really has to do with where you are sitting in relation to the aggressor. 1 to the left of the aggressor is obviously the best position for this play. This situation doesn't allow you to give opponents incorrect pot odds to call.

ChuckyB · #20 06-15-2007, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Letting someone see the turn for free here is terrible.

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Isn't letting someone see the turn for free only a tiny bit worse than them seeing it getting 25(or more) to 1? 25:1 plus implied odds = 2-outers can draw profitably and 1-outers are getting close.

If Hero's absolute position relative to likely aggressor was better, a check would be nice here (ie. if aggressor was in the CO).