ITM Strategy with Dominant Stack

Let's look at this from the SB perspective;

BB will call 100% of the time regardless. You know that the BTN is pushing ATC, what range do you call with here? I was thinking A10o+ and 88+ thoughts?

[TruFloridaGator]

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A big problem with shoving here is you need to go to showdown so when you get HU people know you will shove 97.

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Only generally people have already figured this out or already know this about you these days. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

I like the push but I doubt it matters much what you push against a reasonable SB (99/AQs/AK to 77/AJs/AK). Anything from like 60% to ATC should be fine. The BB will win about half the time when you fold so it isn't like 3-way action is automatically over if you muck a [censored] hand.

You have to be really careful when the short stack is in the middle and just decides to stick it in. Then he can call with any hand that figures to be breakeven against you.

[Kevin8423]

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A big problem with shoving here is you need to go to showdown so when you get HU people know you will shove 97.

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Only generally people have already figured this out or already know this about you these days. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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This is true, a good majority of players probably already know how you play or won't take notice of what you do here.

[IFoldPktOnes]

I push ~60% here. Not including good regs, hardly anyone thinks you are pushing trash here even if they have seen some of your other pushes. In my experience SB usually calls <5% then calls me a donk when they see the trash I flip over.

[Kevin8423]

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I push ~60% here. Not including good regs, hardly anyone thinks you are pushing trash here even if they have seen some of your other pushes. In my experience SB usually calls <5% then calls me a donk when they see the trash I flip over.

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Of course, they ALWAYS call you a donk after this play, then you win.

[PokahPokah]

they just call you a donk as there gna have to graft to get into 2nd place , screw them i say

[pineapple888]

LOLLERCOASTER.

WTF happened to this forum?!?

Pretty much everybody who doesn't know me in person already hates me, so I might as well go ahead and speak my mind.

1.) Framing the discussion in terms of pot odds rather than ICM is beyond absurd. Please learn the basics, Mr. 2+2 Book Writing Man.

2.) Three-handed is not "prime stealing territory". Just the opposite. 60% of the money has already been decided. 10% more goes to second, 30% more goes to first. People are highly incented to look you up. If you shove and lose here, you are nowhere close to a dominant position. Maybe if you had 80% of the chips and the other two are even, then you could do some bullying. That can't happen here in any scenario. And once you are heads-up, no more bullying of course.

Conclusion: Just use ICM/SNGPT. Put your opponents on ranges and make your decision. Those tools are perfect for this situation.

I'll go away now. Yeesh.

[Kevin8423]

The point is that the SB won't usually be calling wide because then the BB can fold with his few hundred chips and hope to take 2nd, where as folding will very often get SB to HU with stacks at 2:1 which isn't a terrible scenario. I would much rather get to HU 3:1 than 2:1, the difference is pretty big, so thats why I make this play occasionally.

There aren't many spots where you can continually dominate with shoving extremely wide once ITM, but I think this is one that works.

[AMT]

just for everyones reference, if bb is calling any two and sb is on 66+,ATs+,AJo+, the shoving range sngpt spits out is:

Push hands: 22+,A2+,K2+,Q5o+,Q2s+,J7o+,J4s+,T8o+,T6s+,97s+ (52.3%)