How to play with TOTAL PASSIVE MAN?

[alavet]

i feel myself very tilted with these kind of players. they just NEVER raise any hand. they check any flop.

i DONT KNOW how to play with them

i raise every button, any T9+ hand from BB and they fold 70%+ of time. on flop which i never hit, i CB and they fold 50% of time. if they called that means they have something.
then, if i pot turn, they folds 30% of time.
so, most of the time i just stealing blinds, but it doesnt fit my loses after 2 rounds betting. if i check flop they also raise (not much than pot anyway) or check.

the most bad thingm when you even hit nuts and bet and bet it they may fold, they just plays BY THEIR CARDS, not vs player.

its seems for me very unprofitable to play with them.
the only way to win, is to get better hand than they (its difficuilt with their wpip, and its always a chance they fold)

any ideas instead of insta quit after 50 hands to discover?

[alavet]

oh please move it to NL HU section


<font color="green">Alavet - Done.

Buzz</font>

[RoundTower]

move up to where you respect their raises?

[garcia1000]

Loc: RUSSIA, Moscow region

...
Opponent checks you!

[chucky]

Take small and medium pots off them, dont bet your draws.

[Spewie]

Are you serious? These are your dream players. Just become a grinder.

[ QUOTE ]

i raise every button, any T9+ hand from BB and they fold 70%+ of time.


[/ QUOTE ]
So you win the blinds over 70% of the time... good.

[ QUOTE ]

on flop which i never hit, i CB and they fold 50% of time.


[/ QUOTE ]
Great... make sure to raise pot preflop, cont bet 1/2 pot if you miss the flop and bet more if you hit something good. This will maximize your winnings and minimize your losses... but be careful that they don't catch on you are betting more with your better hands.

So far, you have stated that they will still be in the pot only 0.7x0.5 = 0.35 or 35% of the time. Great.


[ QUOTE ]

if they called that means they have something. then, if i pot turn, they folds 30% of time.


[/ QUOTE ]
They let you know they have something good... awsome. Bet pot turn if you have something good.

[ QUOTE ]

so, most of the time i just stealing blinds, but it doesnt fit my loses after 2 rounds betting. if i check flop they also raise (not much than pot anyway) or check.


[/ QUOTE ]
Stealing blinds is good. I don't understand the rest of your statement.

[ QUOTE ]

the most bad thingm when you even hit nuts and bet and bet it they may fold, they just plays BY THEIR CARDS, not vs player.its seems for me very unprofitable to play with them.


[/ QUOTE ]
You expect every player to be retarded and hand you money when you have the nuts??

[ QUOTE ]

the only way to win, is to get better hand than they (its difficuilt with their wpip, and its always a chance they fold)


[/ QUOTE ]
Just keep stealing blinds and stealing/value betting on the flop.

[alavet]

first of all, thanks for the responses

/im talking about Holdem NLHU, i jst created topic in wrong forum /


[ QUOTE ]
so, most of the time i just stealing blinds, but it doesnt fit my loses after 2 rounds betting. if i check flop they also raise (not much than pot anyway) or check.
***
Stealing blinds is good. I don't understand the rest of your statement.

[/ QUOTE ]
i meant, total winnings of blinds dont cover my loses of postflop play.

assumed i had nothing and if i Cbet flop (full pot usually, thanks for advice to decrease size of it) and they call that means i probably beaten. they bet turn and i fold, or they check and i have to check because they dont trust me most of the times there, so when i checked turn that way i really cant call their river bet (which usually occurs) even with mid pair (at least i tried that, and lose to TP+ most of the time)

the main problem with such passive opponents is you dont ever know what they holding. and with my massive agression they dont trust me and may reraise with TPMK and comparing to their passiviness i cant call with TPLK.

unfortunately i dont have any HH atm, so there is some hands from my memories.

hero ($40) posts SB (0.25)
villian ($58) posts BB
dealt to hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], hero raises to $1.5, villian calls
flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
hero bets $3, villian calls
turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero - ?
if i bet here again i may face with queens (with better kicker, because we know opponent is tight) and this is -EV if i check i provide him free cards, and representing weakness, kinda "commiting" myself to call river bet, because he may bluff.

hero is SB($68)
villian is BB ($44)
dealt to hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, hero raises to $1.5, BB calls
flop:
Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB checks, hero - ?

and so on


edit:
\\Buzz - you may find Heads Up poker section in "Other Poker&gt; Heads Up Poker"
it would be very nice if you move this thred with your comments about it. <font color="green">I see it now. Done.</font> Anyway, any comments from PLO players welcome [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

[Vinetou]

I have the same problem as you and I actually posted a thread on that topic a while ago. Here is the link

I actually think that these guys have some secret strategy that we 2+2ers don't know. It is totally different from our aggressive play and some people here think that when we think about those opponents, we think about calling stations, which is not true. These guys know what they are doing. See the link and tell me if this is the kind of opponent you are talking about.

[mjws00]

Thanks for the link Vinetou. I honestly think xSCWx nailed this in your thread from the start.

The difficulty in these guys is they are hard to read because they are extremely consistent. If they are thinking at all and will fold to a raise, you can begin to put them on a range. Often they will fold with the same frequency to a much smaller bet than vs. a standard opp. If they float you on the flop... adjust and hammer the turn.

You can also put FAR more pressure on them by RAISING the price of poker. We completely control pot-size against these guys. If they are truly passive we even control it when we are OOP. This is a HUGE advantage. Plus if they ever wake up it is incredibly easy to get away. The second they start betting or bluffing they are no longer 'passive' and we can trap and use other tools.

The only offense these guys have is letting aggro players stick too much money in when behind. You have to adjust and make that error smaller while amplifying the fact that we control pot size. So make sure you get enough in pf that you can really swing a hammer when you have the goods. Otherwise it takes all day. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mike