Where the hell are the winning sessions?

sfetaz · #1 10-15-2007, 08:44 PM

Recently I decided to take limit poker online serious and developed a $300 bankroll for .50/1 limit poker on FT. First two sessions went well and got up to $350. Since then its been a disaster. Some bad play no doubt, some bad beats, but overall losing sessions. I am down to around $200 in less than two weeks. I look at my stats in poker tracker and don't find any holes in the numbers, they all fit the mold it should be. Yet most of the time I feel like I either get in situations where in a session a lot of the handsI am the heavy favorite and get drawn out on, sometimes really hard, or feel like I am in good situation in many hands in a session, but not necessarily the favorite in these hands, but the draws don't always come in or the action on the hand indicate my hand is no good and I do not have odds to call at this point, and I spend money to end up having to fold. I do not deny that I make mistakes, some costly ones, and that I have work to do, but I want to be a successful player and see the numbers go up. I only feel like I have a winning session with limit anymore if I am carded where I get multiplt monsters in one session and not many suckouts. Can anyone please help me? I have hand histories for I thnk every hand I played so far and would like advice on how to find holes in my game or possibly even help with someone evauluating my play so I can find what I need to do. Any advice or help is appriciated.

RyverRat · #2 10-15-2007, 08:55 PM

get a hand history converter post 2 of your largest losing hands...

you may just be sitting on the wrong side of variance. how many hands have you logged ?

dying2win · #3 10-15-2007, 08:58 PM

just because 'the numbers' are right, doesnt mean your playing right

thrasher789 · #4 10-15-2007, 09:12 PM

I have the exact same problem right now, the swings in limit are just insane becuase people will always suck out, just keep playing how you know you should and wait for variance to shoot the other way.

Nsight7 · #5 10-15-2007, 11:02 PM

Variance is a female dog in limit. This might not really be all that insane. Then again, I don't really play much limit poker...

scpi10 · #6 10-16-2007, 01:00 AM

The hands you posted in the limit forum were all played too weak-tight. Varience is part of your problem but you are not maximizing the hands you're being dealt. My advice is to you is move down to .25/.50 and play there until you are a winning player, then move up.

basementproject · #7 10-16-2007, 01:42 AM

Hi. Welcome to Minbet Holdem.

We await your arrival at the NL tables.

sfetaz · #8 10-16-2007, 08:21 PM

Here are the four biggest losing hands I have logged on this PC. Three were lost with the same amount and one hand has been posted already on these forums.

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 6 folds, SB raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (19.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets $3.5 (All-In), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24.25 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has As Ah (full house, aces full of sevens).
Hero has Qc Jc (flush, ace high).
Outcome: SB wins 24.25 BB. Hero wins 1 BB. 

-------

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad As (one pair, aces).
CO has 4h Kh (two pair, kings and fours).
Outcome: CO wins 17.50 BB. 

-------

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

River: (16.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has 7h 8h (three of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Ac Ah (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 18.25 BB. 

---

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ah As (two pair, aces and sevens).
MP1 has 9d 9h (full house, nines full of sevens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 10.75 BB.

Albert Moulton · #9 10-16-2007, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell are the winning sessions?

[/ QUOTE ]

They must be in California because I had 3 winning sessions at the local B&M cardroom while my kids went camping over the weekend.

Seriously, though, I don't know much about limit to give you any specific advice. In general, I'd say keep studying and keep playing. And play at a level that you are adequately bankrolled for. I suspect it's just variance.

MoonOrb · #10 10-18-2007, 02:15 AM

Hand 1: Preflop, fine, although you'd sure hope to get more limpers when you limp UTG rather than ending up HU. On the flop: why did you raise this? You're almost certainly behind here. Since you're heads up, you're not raising for value. So just call. On the turn: good, you caught one of your 13 outs. The river: This is a judgment call..since you capped the turn and he keeps raising, he's telling you that he's ahead, even with the flush and straight on the board. Without the benefit of a read, I'd call here. If I knew he went crazy with top pair or top two pair, then the 3 bet is okay.

Hand 2: Preflop: You absolutely have to raise here. On the flop: I 3bet this. The failure to raise before the flop doesn't crush you here because you wouldn't be able to tell if a 3 bet was KK or JJ rather than AK (although you could have ruled out KJ probably). Still, you're probably ahead of anything he's got at this point. So extract some value and 3 bet. On the turn, had you 3 bet him preflop and raised the flop, this would have played differently, but as played it's fine. The 4d is proabably a blank. River played fine. His betting on the turn was him telling you he had you beat, you can't fold to one bet on the river in a pot that size.

Hand 3: Preflop good. The flop: 3 bet this. You can't really be afraid of 7x and so many people cap QQ that you can discount that, too. More likely holding would be AQ, which you have crushed. I suppose with 2 spades you could give up your equity edge on the flop and hope for a safe card on the turn and then c/r if you're confident he'll bet, but I don't think this is a good opportunity for that. If he raised the flop with 2 spades for the free card, if a non spade comes he'll check behind and if a spade comes, you're sunk unless you catch an out on the river. So just push your equity edge and raise him up. The turn: Villain's play is really weird here. It doesn't seem to fit any of his likely holdings, so as played is fine. On the river: good. You can't fold to one bet and his turn betting and lead out on the river told you you're beaten.

Hand 4: Nice hand.

I didn't bother to see what the holdings were. Knowing that you lost, it looks like vill had AA, KK, or TT in hand one, could have had damn near anything in hand 2, KJ maybe, or K10, or KK, JJ, or 99, hand 3 you lost to someone who played whatever he had weirdly, whether it was QQ, 7x, or whatever. Hand 4...87s?

First of all, it doesn't really matter what the results were in these hands. You'll often have big losses on hands where you expect that you're ahead the whole time only to find out that some silly SOB has been hanging in with 33 and catches one of his 2 outs. So the fact that you lost big isn't going to tell you much. But you can figure out whether you did your best to maximize your equity in a hand where you look to be ahead and to make your opponents make mistakes by staying in unprofitably. It would probably be much more useful to see if there are smaller mistakes that you're making frequently, like failing to raise your big hands preflop and on the flop, for example.

Also, if you're consistently losing at this limit,won't it be more effective to drop a limit (or few) to a level where you're winning? I suppose what you're experiencing *could* be variance, but it's more likely you're just not good enough to play at the limit you're playing at just yet. That's just my opinion, though. Losing isn't any fun and if you're new, you'll learn just as much at the lower limits where it will cost you less than at the limit you're at now. I am getting the feeling that every time I learn one thing I'm exposed to about ten other things that I realize I don't know, so I'm personally in no particular rush to pay more for knowledge than I have to.