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#31
11-28-2007, 07:11 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
Non-philosophical forms of inquiry are intellectual endeavors constituted by certain basic assumptions. A scientific form of inquiry assumes that the world is an ordered whole and that we can, through reason, acquire knowledge of this whole. The world of science is governed by laws that define causal effects that are measurable and perceivable by humans. It is the case that humans reason from within container like boundaries, thus we are always within a container. However the trick is to enlarge our containers and thereby gain a more universal perspective. We must find a means to examine our assumptions. Each container is constructed with its own assumptions. That is why philosophy is so useful. It is a domain of knowledge with the largest container, or at least the Philosophy dept likes to think so. Ideology takes its assumptions and considers them infallible and strives to convince the world that their assumptions are natural and universal. Take as example the assumptions of Americans about democracy and freedom or the Catholic Church about Jesus. 
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#32
11-28-2007, 07:40 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you assume a person has a sphere of influence, a group mind is a definitive possibility as the group behavior can spread and strengthen specific ideas. [/ QUOTE ] Minds are influenced by all sorts of inputs including inputs gernerated by other minds. That's not a group mind is just a group of minds. chez [/ QUOTE ] And a mind is a result of the building blocks that make up our bodies and and what affects them, but we still call it a mind and not a group of building blocks and what affects them. It is not always useful - nor necessary - to separate terms just because we know what their individual composition is. Groupthinking is a very distinct feature of certain human behaviors for example, and thus looking at the group as a whole can be useful. [/ QUOTE ] in this case it is useful because we are talking at the level of decision making. Its only individual minds that make decisions in this sense. There are no intentional acts by groups, just individuals. Yes many individuals are heavily/easily influenced by others but that's not a group mind. chez
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#33
11-28-2007, 07:46 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
[ QUOTE ]
Ideology takes its assumptions and considers them infallible and strives to convince the world that their assumptions are natural and universal. [/ QUOTE ] That's what I said, you disagreed and said it was just a set of ideas that we give great value to. This is a vital difference. The whole problem you are discussing here is not usually a result of people having ideas that they value greatly, in fact when people are willing to put their lifes at risk for ideas they value greatly we normally consider that a noble thing to do. Its only when it has become ideological that we consider something has gone wrong. chez
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#34
11-28-2007, 07:52 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you assume a person has a sphere of influence, a group mind is a definitive possibility as the group behavior can spread and strengthen specific ideas. [/ QUOTE ] Minds are influenced by all sorts of inputs including inputs gernerated by other minds. That's not a group mind is just a group of minds. chez [/ QUOTE ] And a mind is a result of the building blocks that make up our bodies and and what affects them, but we still call it a mind and not a group of building blocks and what affects them. It is not always useful - nor necessary - to separate terms just because we know what their individual composition is. Groupthinking is a very distinct feature of certain human behaviors for example, and thus looking at the group as a whole can be useful. [/ QUOTE ] in this case it is useful because we are talking at the level of decision making. Its only individual minds that make decisions in this sense. There are no intentional acts by groups, just individuals. Yes many individuals are heavily/easily influenced by others but that's not a group mind. chez [/ QUOTE ] Well there certainly isn't a 'hive mind' if that is what you mean by groupmind. I guess we probably agree but just stumble around some semantics.
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#35
11-28-2007, 08:06 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you assume a person has a sphere of influence, a group mind is a definitive possibility as the group behavior can spread and strengthen specific ideas. [/ QUOTE ] Minds are influenced by all sorts of inputs including inputs gernerated by other minds. That's not a group mind is just a group of minds. chez [/ QUOTE ] And a mind is a result of the building blocks that make up our bodies and and what affects them, but we still call it a mind and not a group of building blocks and what affects them. It is not always useful - nor necessary - to separate terms just because we know what their individual composition is. Groupthinking is a very distinct feature of certain human behaviors for example, and thus looking at the group as a whole can be useful. [/ QUOTE ] in this case it is useful because we are talking at the level of decision making. Its only individual minds that make decisions in this sense. There are no intentional acts by groups, just individuals. Yes many individuals are heavily/easily influenced by others but that's not a group mind. chez [/ QUOTE ] Well there certainly isn't a 'hive mind' if that is what you mean by groupmind. I guess we probably agree but just stumble around some semantics. [/ QUOTE ] I think we do agree. I'm just vary wary of the groupmind talk because its higly misleading - especially to those who suffer from groupmind [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] chez
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#36
11-28-2007, 08:37 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
[ QUOTE ]
A scientific form of inquiry assumes that the world is an ordered whole and that we can, through reason, acquire knowledge of this whole. The world of science is governed by laws that define causal effects that are measurable and perceivable by humans. [/ QUOTE ] From that statement I can deduce your background is not scientific, coberst, You really are king at shooting yourself in the foot!
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#37
11-28-2007, 10:58 AM
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Re: Kool-Aid didn’t kill those people.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A scientific form of inquiry assumes that the world is an ordered whole and that we can, through reason, acquire knowledge of this whole. The world of science is governed by laws that define causal effects that are measurable and perceivable by humans. [/ QUOTE ] I am a retired engineer. From that statement I can deduce your background is not scientific, coberst, You really are king at shooting yourself in the foot! [/ QUOTE ]
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