We haven't won yet: latest (10/19) cliff's notes on AP scandal

[aislephive]

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There are too many ways to cheat online. Multiple accounts, multiple IP's, multiple identities, IM's, cell phones, I could go on and on. To expect that a poker site has the sophistication to catch all of them is deluded. There have been scandals now at let's see...Party, Stars, Ultimate Bet, and now Absolute. Those are just the high profile ones that I can remember off the top of my head. What's more, if the poker site staff are in on a cheating scheme, most of it likely goes undetected.

You are a victim of your own wishful thinking if you think the world of online poker has any integrity.

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What scandals have Party and Stars had? There were some bot accusations a couple years ago in the small stakes LHE games on Party, but that's all I can remember. What scandals have Stars been involved in? Also I'm going to help you out since you seem a little clueless, there was a big accusation of bots in the $200nl full ring games on FTP, however nothing was proven and it turned out that it ended up being a group of friends.

Don't mesh UB and AP with sites that actually have integrity like Stars, Party, FTP, etc. Those sites have always been a little shady, especially UB. Regardless, if you think the reason you can't win at your busto stakes games is because people are cheating then you're the one that is delusional.

All the ways you listed to cheat aren't very effective, and it's not difficult to spot colluders. None of that is even close to the magnitude of this incident with AP. And again, if you think somebody with access to all the hole cards is going to be playing your micro stakes games you are an idiot.

[adanthar]

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Is that investigating how you can prove that online poker isn't infested with cheats? Of course, you don't have any interest in proving that true. I'm sure you are completely unbiased and disinterested.

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you know what, screw you and the horse you rode in on.

[gumpzilla]

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What scandals have Stars been involved in?

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I was trying to think about this the other day. I don't remember enough of the details, but I do remember thinking the "exclusive" incident with Stars was handled mildly strangely by them. Nothing on par with this, to be sure.

[highhustla]

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I've been following this in amazement and admiration for the community here breaking this open and I'm grateful for the stellar work that's been done, even as someone who's never played at Absolute.

I was compelled to sign up because I'm curious (since it's not just the mob, but also N 82 trying to find out); why is there so much concern over what Scott Tom looks like? Are people planning to hunt him down? To what end? I feel like I'm missing something obvious. It seems like if finding a picture was all that important, the sources within AP could provide one with relative ease.

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Well for one thing, the fact alone that there AREN'T any pictures of him--looks pretty [censored] shady.

[Greg Miller]

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Now, what's more likely? An MSNBC reporter made up some wild story, or AP's throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks?

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Dunno, that's a pretty close call. If it were CBS or the Associated Press, I might be willing to give AP the benefit of the doubt. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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The bigger sites like Stars and Tilt have huge existing revenue streams to protect, so you're at least less likely to be cheated by an inside job there.

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while this is true, Absolute and UB have been around for a while and both have huge revenue streaks to protect. this isn't Bobs Online Poker.

[helemaalnicks]

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Dunno, that's a pretty close call. If it were CBS or the Associated Press, I might be willing to give AP the benefit of the doubt. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Well, it seems to me that everytime we/you/the community raises, AP Folds, and as soon as they know you don't have any cards, they will reraise all-in.

I think the stackes should be raised, without giving away any more of the information nat is holding. Media, press, police, lawyer, every method should be put in to get bring them down. I think it would be good if EU-regulated pokerrooms would get the leading share in the online poker market. So that means AP has to go down. Costa Rica does have law, and if the costa rican authorities dont act on it, there is always international law that makes rules against international scamming.

[Dan Druff]

A few notes:

1) I was given information about 5 days ago that Scott Tom and the rest of the AP bigwigs are/were moving to Panama. From what I was told, the move to Panama was planned before any of this occurred. However, perhaps this cheating was timed to occur just before the move, thus avoiding legal ramifications.

2) Just to repeat for those that weren't following a previous thread, Phil Tom is Scott's dad, not his brother.

3) Given that STEAMROLLER was from Miami, and given all of AP's association with Miami, I find it unlikely that it was a compromised account. I now believe both STEAMROLLER and POTRIPPER both belong to AP employees. It is very possible that STEAMROLLER belongs to Scott Tom himself, especially given the report by that one guy who supposedly communicated with Tom on July 27th under the STEAMROLLER account.

4) The guy posting on Pocketfives about his account being compromised in July seems like a bit of a whack-job. However, it is indeed possible that his account was hacked from "the inside", and that GRAYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG were also compromised accounts. Also note that GRAYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG were the first cheating accounts on the scene, while STEAMROLLER and DOUBLEDRAG only started cheating after they got more blatant. Oh... just remembered this: Two different people have reported to me that STEAMROLLER had flashed between $200k and $500k on the table in the past, bragging that he had "wired it in". There was no record of STEAMROLLER winning at that point, so that gives even more reason to believe that it's a staff account.

5) I have a faint memory of GRAYCAT being from New Orleans, but don't quote me on that. Anyone found a New Orleans connection to Scott Tom and friends? I remember for sure that GRAYCAT lived east of the Mississippi.

[El Diablo]

KBZ,

I 100% agree with you. Without any regulation, even the "established" places carry lots of risks. However, sticking w/ the biggest sites is likely to at least reduce the risk somewhat.

[gobbomom]

I'm pretty sure I posted about this already, but I want to elaborate on it now after BRSavage's post:

AP doesn't care about you guys, they're just stringing you along. What does matter; however, is Mohawk. That's why it's critical to keep this in the main stream press. Mohawk can't afford to lose it's reputation for secure, confidential business practices. Their stock went down on the whole .58 last week and it will be very interesting to see where it's at Mon. If you want something to happen in this scenario, it's got to effect Mohawk.