The delayed c-bet

[Gurravasa]

As usual when a poker magazine occasionally publish an strategyarticle about SH-limit Hold'em poker it's very basic and mostly explain the difference from NL Hold'em. The article was written by John Vorhaus. I haven't read his books but from what I've heard both his books and himself has a pretty bad reputation.

Anyway next to the article there was a small text about "the delayd c-bet". I assume it was the same author since the text had no byline. The idea is that when you're HU in position on the flop and you raised preflop you should check the flop and bet after villain checks on turn.

The reasoning is that villain will call many hands anyway, but if we wait to the turn he is more likely to fold for 1BB. Even thou it's not mentioned I assume that since the author clearly wants villain to fold that he suggest that we do this when we don't have a hand.

Many questions are left unanswered in this article, for instance how to balance this play? If we only check flop with air even mediocre opponents will pick that up after a while and start donking turn with all sorts of hands. So we need to check flop with strong hands as well I suppose. Also how do we know we don't have the best hand on the flop? If we raised preflop we usually have something and if villain didn't hit the flop we could have the best hand and bet for value.

Do you guys ever use this "delayed c-bet" and if you do in what situations?

[kitaristi0]

Sounds like a pretty bad play to my untrained ears.

[vmacosta]

here is a spot where i use it:

I raise on the button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB defends. He is a spazzy overagro fellow who hates me and will basically never give up on a pot with me without a fight.

Flop comes T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check behind here. It's an easily exploited strategy but it comes rarely enough that it doesn't matter much.

[Absolution]

If I do this it's either because of a situation like vmacosta, or because the flop hits me and the occasional slowplay where I think waiting for the turn will induce bets, where betting the flop will just get them to fold. I would never do this with say, A high on a ragged board. You will end up getting check-raised or donk bet on the turn quite a bit with this strategy.

[xerber]

I would never do this without a good read. If you want to do this more often you have to balance it and i don´t think that´s better than the standard c-bet strategy.

[ QUOTE ]
... or because the flop hits me and the occasional slowplay where I think waiting for the turn will induce bets, where betting the flop will just get them to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you do this? -
I c-bet 100% HU against unkowns, non-callingstations, bc i think they will pick up on the pattern, when i don´t c-bet and try to trap.
That can be balanced by also checking weak hands. Not only in situations as vmacosta decribed, bc they are more rarely than the ones where you want to slowplay. So i think the problem is how to properly balance it.

..i might overrate my opponents again [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[frenchpignouf]

I do that against lag with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on a board like 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I call UI any turn and any river. I balance sometimes this play with 77 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

With a very marginal made hand and a FE close to 0 with board where a lag bluffs or semi bluffs a lot, a cheap showdown is interesting.

[Absolution]

[ QUOTE ]
I would never do this without a good read. If you want to do this more often you have to balance it and i don´t think that´s better than the standard c-bet strategy.

[ QUOTE ]
... or because the flop hits me and the occasional slowplay where I think waiting for the turn will induce bets, where betting the flop will just get them to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you do this? -
I c-bet 100% HU against unkowns, non-callingstations, bc i think they will pick up on the pattern, when i don´t c-bet and try to trap.
That can be balanced by also checking weak hands. Not only in situations as vmacosta decribed, bc they are more rarely than the ones where you want to slowplay. So i think the problem is how to properly balance it.

..i might overrate my opponents again [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Having a balanced game is just about the last thing I think about in small stakes shorthanded.

[KilgoreTrout]

At higher stakes against good players this may work once in a while over a session. Against the softies, maniacs, and spewers in my games this is just FPS.

[Romulet]

I use it in this situation.

I raise C/O 9Ts BB calls. Flop AAK, BB checks, I check. I then bet the turn. I only use it against good players who will realise I check the trips or the king on the flop, obvously with the ace I have the board crippled, the good player knows that so I have to check then bet the turn.

I always continuation bet every other board so the good player "knows" I'm up to something when I check.

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]
I use it in this situation.

I raise C/O 9Ts BB calls. Flop AAK, BB checks, I check. I then bet the turn. I only use it against good players who will realise I check the trips or the king on the flop, obvously with the ace I have the board crippled, the good player knows that so I have to check then bet the turn.

I always continuation bet every other board so the good player "knows" I'm up to something when I check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you'll just get b/threebet with air because a good player will realise what you're doing. FWIW when a somewhat unknown player who I regard as good or reasonable does this to me, I bet/threebet and bet the river until I have reason not to.