Basic Theory - Raising preflop

[Colonel Kataffy]

honestly, if i ever feel that I have enough time to start varying my preflop bet sizes, i usually open up more tables until that feeling goes away.

[RoyalMag]

If the 2+2 standard for a pf raise is 4bb +1 per limper, whats the standard for the c-bet on the flop?

[PocketElevens]

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If the 2+2 standard for a pf raise is 4bb +1 per limper, whats the standard for the c-bet on the flop?

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2/3-3/4 pot

[Shaddux]

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I think adding other situations where you raise different is when your raise starts giving away information to observant opponents.

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Exactly, Ideally, If I can assume my opponents are paying no attention whatsoever to my pf play, I would raise hands like AQ (which don't like huge pots) around 4bb and AA around 8bb.

Likewise, While using a consistent cbet size may work best against decent opponents, when I'm playing 25NL donks, I often vary my cbet sizes to risk less when I have air and to build the pot when I have a hand.

[avfletch]

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If the 2+2 standard for a pf raise is 4bb +1 per limper, whats the standard for the c-bet on the flop?

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I make a PSB almost every time.

[Colonel Kataffy]

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If the 2+2 standard for a pf raise is 4bb +1 per limper, whats the standard for the c-bet on the flop?

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I make a PSB almost every time.

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well, you can probably give yourself a rebate on c-bets and not give anything away by balancing it with the times your practicing pot control.

[Shaddux]

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Maybe in higher stakes games it is wise to vary the size of the raises.

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I don't know. Whenever I'm railbirding the huge games, I always notice that there is a standard raise (I think usually around 2.5-3.5BB)

[Shaddux]

I raise or fold.

[King Spew]

Hello, my name is King Spew and I come from The Dark Side.

I have read the principle that "computer modeling has shown that it is often more correct to see the flop as cheaply as possible" Ken Warren Winner's Guide to Texas HE pg 53. I think this can be taken too far to the extreme, but I believe in Micro, this 'tactic' may have greater use than at higher stakes. I also believe that as we are learning, that "tight is right". Loosen up after you are bulletproof.

We in Micro just got our Learner's Permit. Let's drive a little slower and SAFER to start. The largest problem related to PFR in Micro IMO (I play 6Max) is that playahs get too committed to the pot after they have raised it up with speculative hands. The inexperienced playah that raises PF with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in CO, gets called in three places, flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the SB leads off for a ¾ pot bet that gets called before getting to our playah. As a beginner, he's kinda stuck. He's very likely way behind either opp, but he's got extra money in the pot that he still thinks is his. He's most likely to call this bet (incorrectly) and get sucked into an ever expanding pot with a marginal hand. (At this point, stack size, opp tendencies, etc haven't been addressed because MOST beginners and a large minority of Micros aren't aware that these are issues yet!).

I have found a strategy that has worked fairly well at the Micro tables (stars and party). I will raise PF with my top pair type hands and limp everything else I would play. With the top pair hands I will 100% PSB Cbet.... AA or AJo whether the flop hit or not. If I get called on a 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flop, then I'll have to evaluate the turn card. But usually you'll see a Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flop and have great success with your CBets. Point is, I'm getting practice using Cbets (a) with the goods or (b) without //// and I'm practicing post-flop aggressive play with strong cards that require protection PF and on the flop.

Speculative/drawing hands make more money on the later streets. If you limp in a majority of times with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 33, fit or fold is a fairly good strategy to apply. As you begin to learn how to read villain's range, you might actually pay to see the turn but in general, you would be fighting an uphill battle.
As a side note for the 6Max Micro tables, I have noticed that the general level of play has gone up over the past year. It's still GREAT [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], but there is usually another decent playah or two sitting with you. When you hit your set on the flop, you are not as likely to stack a shark as you would a minnow so you have to factor that into the equation.

The point of my ramblings I guess is that the Uber aggressive PF style that is all the rage here on 2+2 is a great style and will work INCREDIBLY well on the micro tables. IMO, it requires better post-flop skills to really pull it off and requires the playah to pay close attention to table dynamics. The problem with this is that we (2+2) are also espousing a multi-tabling experience. Tough to do both as a beginner. Paying cheaply to see more flops is not a terrible strategy in the Micros IMHO.

[avfletch]

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If the 2+2 standard for a pf raise is 4bb +1 per limper, whats the standard for the c-bet on the flop?

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I make a PSB almost every time.

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well, you can probably give yourself a rebate on c-bets and not give anything away by balancing it with the times your practicing pot control.

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Sorry I don't follow what you mean. Could you elaborate please?