Police kill Polish man @ Vancouver Airport

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's way too much exaggeration going on here. Cops physically restrain people all the time. Neck breaking is rarely any part of it, nor is death. Nor crippling of any type, much less "badly."

You're over-extending your argument way beyond reasonableness. There's zero reason to insist that every situation is some sort of life-and-death, all-or-nothing matter. That's not even remotely close to the truth, so it really doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm starting to think "sharks with lasers" is gonna make an appearance in here somewhere, or that we're overdue for a Hitler remark.

[KotOD]

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This is silly. The guy was throwing computer equipment around. What is the translator going to find out? "Hello officers, let me greet you in the traditional Polish manner of smashing appliances."

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He was detained for 10 hours after a 14 hour flight for no reason. None. So after being held in a room for 10 hours for doing nothing, not being able to communicate with anyone, with your elderly mother driving five hours to pick you up and knowing that she's looking for you, you get pissed and throw a monitor.

I would expect him to do MUCH worse.

[supafrey]

Just to add a couple small points...

1. When foreign/ESL people need to speak to bureacracy/government/police, they somehow manage. Canadian police services offer emergency care in something like 200 unique languages, and private companies offer over-the-phone translations for emergency situations such as this one. Anyone who has ever worked for the government is taught how to deal with people who are foreign/unresponsive.. this goes double for police services.

2. If any Russian person was brought to speak to this man, they'd have almost immediately been able to notice this dude was speaking Polish. Any Eastern Euro person could have helped this situation and it's disappointing airport security didn't think of this during the long wait that was obviously distressing this guy.

[Daddys_Visa]

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TASER put out the standard self-serving press release that any publicly traded company would but they included an interesting statement:

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Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate. The video of the incident at the Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the TASER application. This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the TASER device electrical current causing cardiac arrest. His continuing struggle is proof that the TASER device was not the cause of his death.

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LOL. What basis do they have for saying that cardiac arrest from a shock must be instant? A shock can throw the heart into a dangerous arrhythmia that can eventually progress to ventricular fibrillation (which would render him unconscious in seconds). But that need not happen the exact instant the TASER is applied since arrythmias can evolve over time, either back in to a normal rhythm or into other dangerous rhythms.


It's also possible that the extreme physical stress of being tasered caused a heart attack (which is an entirely different mechanism than shock-induced arrhythmia). His blood pressure and heart rate likely went thru the roof, and may have caused an atherosclerotic plaque supplying one of the arteries to his heart to rupture, thus blocking the blood supply to the heart and causing severe damage to the heart muscle. Maybe the heart attack was bound to happen anyways. Maybe tomorrow, and maybe 20 years from now. But the TASERing seems to have been the precipitating event.

I also love how the cops rushed to call for medical help and start CPR immediately. Are all cops, fireman, and paramedics not trained in CPR as a standard of practice?

As a Canadian, this video makes me angry.

[MC Chris]

does this story remind anyonen else of:

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's way too much exaggeration going on here. Cops physically restrain people all the time. Neck breaking is rarely any part of it, nor is death. Nor crippling of any type, much less "badly."

You're over-extending your argument way beyond reasonableness. There's zero reason to insist that every situation is some sort of life-and-death, all-or-nothing matter. That's not even remotely close to the truth, so it really doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm starting to think "sharks with lasers" is gonna make an appearance in here somewhere, or that we're overdue for a Hitler remark.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

Judging by the highly stressed, often drug induced states that the suspects are in, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that 0.2% of incidents using physical force of any kind will result in death.

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is silly. The guy was throwing computer equipment around. What is the translator going to find out? "Hello officers, let me greet you in the traditional Polish manner of smashing appliances."

[/ QUOTE ]

He was detained for 10 hours after a 14 hour flight for no reason. None. So after being held in a room for 10 hours for doing nothing, not being able to communicate with anyone, with your elderly mother driving five hours to pick you up and knowing that she's looking for you, you get pissed and throw a monitor.

I would expect him to do MUCH worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what are the police suppose to do about that? Pat him on the back and have a beer? They were called in because an individual was smashing private property. This is going to result in an arrest no matter what. He had to be cuffed.

The fault lies with the airport administration.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's way too much exaggeration going on here. Cops physically restrain people all the time. Neck breaking is rarely any part of it, nor is death. Nor crippling of any type, much less "badly."

You're over-extending your argument way beyond reasonableness. There's zero reason to insist that every situation is some sort of life-and-death, all-or-nothing matter. That's not even remotely close to the truth, so it really doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm starting to think "sharks with lasers" is gonna make an appearance in here somewhere, or that we're overdue for a Hitler remark.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

Judging by the highly stressed, often drug induced states that the suspects are in, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that 0.2% of incidents using physical force of any kind will result in death.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I haven't done any exaggerating so you are criticizing nothing and merely being reactive and not really making cogent comments anymore.

[Wires]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you provide the source of your data, Peter? From what I've been able to gather 8000 seems very high. My only resource is Google so bear with me.

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have said they are reviewing Taser use. Eighteen people have died in Canada after being hit with a Taser in the last four years."

"The 606 incidents analyzed by The Canadian Press took place between March 2002 and March 2005, the latest data available from the RCMP under the Access to Information Act. (In 43 cases, officers removed a Taser from its holster but did not fire.)...In 105 cases, RCMP officers stunned prisoners they had detained -- the vast majority of them unarmed, many of them native." - CTV News

"Three out of four suspects stun-gunned by the RCMP were unarmed, indicates a review of 563 cases that shows Tasers are often used for compliance rather than to defuse major threats." - Canadian Press

I cannot find any hard data to support or refute 8000 but it seems high to me. Western Canada has the highest Taser use where the RCMP does far more policing than in the East. The RCMP reports indicate approx 600 uses since 2002 with 18 deaths (some of these 18 deaths are attributable to local police forces and not the RCMP).

[KotOD]

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He had to be cuffed.

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No, he didn't. The room was already devoid of any more property to break. He was contained in the same room he had been contained in for the last 10 hours. He was not a threat at all, to anyone.

What were they going to do with him after arresting him? Get a translator. Read what the translators that reviewed the tape said that he was saying and calling for.

There is no goddamned reason that police need to forcefully restrain a person that is already contained and is not a harm to anyone else until such a time that they can communicate with the individual. This is basic [censored] police work.