Am I ahead here ever?

[Suited76]

For those of you advocating a push preflop, what range are you putting villain on?

Unless we have some read that says otherwise, this is a big hand the vast majority of the time from my experience. A min raise UTG from a stack less than 10X. I'd rather call his all in than push over the top in this spot.

If it's TT+ & AK then we're 30/70 against that range and not getting close to the odds we need.

Even if we assign him any pair & AQ+ then our equity is still only 40/60 and I can't imagine his range is anywhere near that wide.

It's tough to assign him a range that makes this +EV and we have no fold equity, so why the push?

[JammyDodga]

Im putting on a much wider range than this, you see min-raise UTG with a whole lot of [censored] like j10suited, kq, low pairs, hands that want to see a flop before committing the rest of their chips.

If you putting him on exactly that tight a range after one bet, then you should be folding this OOP, I mean, what flop are you looking for to continue? KJ10?

[Suited76]

I've seen lots of crazy raises from UTG, but I don't see them from a stack that's less than 10X.

Some stupid laggy big stack with 40X isn't the same as a shortstack minraising UTG. He's open pushing most of the junk you talk about and minraising his monsters.

I'm not saying that's an absolute and some small % of the time he'll have something ridiculous, but I think this range should be very tight for an avg player in this spot.

[JammyDodga]

He's got 19BB not 10... that makes a big difference imo.

10bb, I agree with you completely, but here, he could be doing this with a hand that "too good to fold" but not good enough to really commit to without seeing a flop. Of course, he's doing this with monsters sometimes too.

[deankeaton7]

I dont understand your plan at all in this hand. It seems like you called pre bc you were worried about him being UTG. If you flop top pair with AQ and these stack sizes, you should be willing to get it in. If not, then fold preflop.

I would raise all in preflop. If I just called preflop, I would put him all in on the flop.

[Dunkman]

This discussion is strange.

I agree with fees, I'd just fold here, I have no idea what we're beating.

[pig]

Anyone else not like a go and go here?
Repop to say 500 600 pre,
and push any flop?
On further reflection push pre is better.

[Suited76]

You are correct sir. I thought the BB was T200 for some reason. My apologies.

[Marduk]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise to ~700 pre flop. I have seen so many people show down crap with UTG min raise. I can also fold comfortably to a 4 bet pre flop.

As played I chk raise flop and also prolly fold to a 3-bet as we can still have lots of chips left behind for a better spot.


[/ QUOTE ]

i've been reading a lot of threads in hsmtt where they strongly advise against 3-bet/folding and i think it makes a lot of sense. they basically say that if you're 3-betting here, it should be with the intention of calling a shove, or you're turning your hand into a bluff. you said you've seen people minraise with crap, so why wouldn't you want to get it in pf against a wide range? if you're going to 3-bet/fold, you definitely don't want to do it against someone with 20bb. you'd be getting 2-1 on his shove, so you're basically commited to calling if you play it that way.

the flop illustrates a similar concept, i think. if you're c/r'ing intending to fold to a shove, why are you 3-betting at all? i think if you're unsure whether or not you have the best hand here, you should c/c, and if you're c/r'ing you should be happy to get it in. otherwise, you're turning your hand into a bluff again, and you'd be getting great odds to call. if you raise his flop bet to 700 and he moves in, you're getting 2.8-1. i put a range of AA,TT,AJs+,AJo+ and QQ/KK with a spade into pokerstove and i got 41.6% equity on the flop. if you c/r flop and he shoves, you need less than 26% for it to be -cEV, and the only way that would happen is if he only moves in with a set, AK, or a made flush.