Quitin time for Doyle

[[Phill]]

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I love how this one hand defines the people who understand poker and those that dont.


I strongly suspect anyone disagreeing with Doyles play has never played above 25NL or their weekly home game - if they even play the game.

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i dont know why doyle is betting the turn just to fold to a raise. with that mind set, he should just check behind and call a river bet by gold.[ QUOTE ]


LMFAO.

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Yea pretty much exactly my thoughts. If you cant figure out why Doyle folds here you might never get it.

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never get it? who got out played there?

there is a read on the flop by doyle that you guys are over looking. doyle wasnt sure about his hand on the turn, so he bet to get information and found out he was beat......good play.

all i'm saying is that if you're not sure about your hand because of a read on the flop.......and your going to fold to a check raise on the turn.......then why bet?

you guys are mostly dumbass internet players. your reads are based on stats and timing. replay the hand and watch what happens when jamie check calls the flop. look at doyles reaction. theres something he's not sure about.

most of you guys are too math oriented and thats fine. it is correct to bet the turn.......not if there is a read and your not sure though.

its simple, your not sure so check behind, jamie bets probably 25k on the river and you call and win the pot. i dont like the play either my fellow dumbass's but if in doubt.....check......not bet. why do you think doyle was so willing to fold the hand? he had a read that stemmed from the flop.

doyle finds out later he was out played and gets steamed up. yeah, thats some real good poker. i thought doyle can tell what someone has just by looking into a mans eyes. i guess jamie is such a dumbass that he thought he had the best hand and doyle read him right.......good play.

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You cant assume Doyle read Gold as strong on the flop - he was probably just computing Golds range at that point, maybe wondering what to have for dinner later that day, who knows.

The thing is on the turn he finds himself holding the 3rd nuts and needs to get value from one of the weaker players on the table. He bets, and then Gold goes into a big speach where he basically announces he has a big hand.

When Gold raises Doyle cannot see that as a raise of 100k (or whatever, i cant remember the figure) but its also a further amount on the river at least equal to the raise, probably an all in.

His line is 100% perfect and is an awesome example of where live play differs from online play. Where you are incorrect in your analysis is that you are being results orientated.

As has been stated Doyle overestimated what Gold would see as "uber strength", and as someone stated Barry underestimated what Gold had and would have gone broke with a worse flush. Its interesting that neither of them were right in their reads but they were wrong in opposing directions.

Anyway, im not touching on the Gold hate, im done with all that BS and i like the guy; even though he is a rough player.

[futuredoc85]

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I love how this one hand defines the people who understand poker and those that dont.

I strongly suspect anyone disagreeing with Doyles play has never played above 25NL or their weekly home game - if they even play the game.

Best post in thread
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i dont know why doyle is betting the turn just to fold to a raise. with that mind set, he should just check behind and call a river bet by gold.

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LMFAO.

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hmm funny cause i disagree with his play there and i play and beat much higher than you. it wasnt an awful fold and doesnt really deserve ridicule but i def wouldnt fold there against J.G. Just because an idiot thinks his hand is the nuts doesnt mean it is.

[inyourface]

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This is true. Had Doyle had the nuts, Gold would have been busted. It was Gold that played reckless and totally ignorant. Gold never gave one thought to Doyle having the QJ S or the JT S. Gold's luck will run out someday. He plays so bad.

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Gold got Doyle to lay down the winner

ergo

Gold played it well, Doyle choked

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its posts like this thats the reason nobody cares to take you seriously

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LOL, I'm not trying to be taken seriously...as opposed to someone else who got rather upset in the TV forum Micro!

[dtf13]

His read on Jamie's strength was incredibly accurate. I am sure that Jamie had the ‘nuts’ in his mind.

But, it would have been great to see Doyle snap him.

[O Fen�meno]

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i think its quitting time for you

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[zen_rounder]

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I love how this one hand defines the people who understand poker and those that dont.


I strongly suspect anyone disagreeing with Doyles play has never played above 25NL or their weekly home game - if they even play the game.

Best post in thread
[ QUOTE ]
i dont know why doyle is betting the turn just to fold to a raise. with that mind set, he should just check behind and call a river bet by gold.[ QUOTE ]


LMFAO.

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Yea pretty much exactly my thoughts. If you cant figure out why Doyle folds here you might never get it.

[/ QUOTE ]people saying "omg how could he fold there" = ss players who have never played a deepstack game.500k buy in made them all get in line, they all looked a little uncomfortable with the stakes.. what about sammy folding his flush? in the normal 100k buy in game i doubt he would have folded that hand there..

[zen_rounder]

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Problem is, if doyle calls the $100k, gold is going to probably shove the river because he thinks he has the nuts not realising he's turning his hand into a bluff. 400BB+ deep a 10 high flush doesn't look that good in that spot. Yes Gold is retarded and overvalues hands, but even Doyle can't think that Gold is overvaluing a lower flush than a 10 high flush. Doyle probably knows Gold is retarded but he can't think he's that retarded to raise the turn with 97ss, 56ss, 76ss, 32ss etc etc. Doyle has the 8 spades and the 4 spades is on the board. Surely no-one could be that retarded to raise $100k with a lower flush. Surely. The only thing we learnt about this hand is that Gold is more retarded than first thought.

[/ QUOTE ]indeed an apt decription

[[Phill]]

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I love how this one hand defines the people who understand poker and those that dont.

I strongly suspect anyone disagreeing with Doyles play has never played above 25NL or their weekly home game - if they even play the game.

Best post in thread
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i dont know why doyle is betting the turn just to fold to a raise. with that mind set, he should just check behind and call a river bet by gold.

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LMFAO.

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hmm funny cause i disagree with his play there and i play and beat much higher than you. it wasnt an awful fold and doesnt really deserve ridicule but i def wouldnt fold there against J.G. Just because an idiot thinks his hand is the nuts doesnt mean it is.

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There are exceptions to every rule, and i left wiggle room in my statement for a reason.

The difference is you analysed the situation differently to Doyle - with the same analysis as he made its a fold.

Its VERY easy to analyse a hand with all the info we have as viewers of the show - not just the hands that Gold and Doyle had in that hand but all the other plays that Gold has made on TV - something that Doyle said he didnt (he claims to have never watched the HSP episodes, though i suspect that is advertising, either way he doesnt have this season's info).

My point isnt that calling is bad, or that folding is good, its that the people talking in absolutes (ZOMG, he folded 3rd nuts to JG, how, lol, retire) are missing that there are lots of subtleties to the game and that the people coming down strongly in either direction are probably missing that.

That quote i have there is a great example of missing the sublety - the idea Doyle had a "mindset" that he would fold to a raise when he put in the turn bet entirely misses out all the thought between that turn bet, Golds raise and Doyles fold. There was tonnes and tonnes of info there.

Also, as i later said its interesting how Doyle and Barry analysed the hand at the same time (without the known hands) where one assumed Gold had the nuts (or that he has 3rd nuts beat the vast majority of the time) and the other thought he had the nut straight and would have called down with anything that beats that.

[futuredoc85]

ya i agree w/ everything you said, also it being a close spot means that the fact that everyone is playing a game no one is rolled for comes into play as well, both in doyles read (possibly thinking J.G. would be more careful w/ that much behind) and in deciding whether or not to call down in a thin spot. Also whoever said bet/folding is bad is an idiot obv. bet/fold is so much better than checking behind and flatting river

[NL Rounder]

Winning players occasionally lay down the best hand...it's one of the reasons why they're winners in the first place.

I'll take Doyle over Gold straight up any day.