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#41
10-29-2007, 06:21 PM
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Re: Very interesting 100-200 hand. Need all the help i can get!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] PartyGirl, [ QUOTE ] If he is at all competent he will be randomizing enough to make it pretty much neutral EV for Timex. [/ QUOTE ] Lol at this. Do u know how hard this is? Do u have any idea? Dont answer pls. [/ QUOTE ] ... Nezzar, being completely objective here, Jeff and PartyGirl are pretty much right about this hand... The only thing I see interesting about it is that it was a large pot and Timex called down. The ace is nearly an irrelevant card at these stakes because good players are jamming TT-KK on the river, too. [/ QUOTE ] I strongly disagree with the ace being irrelevant. Consider how timex would play A-J. I think he would play it exactly the same. At least i would... 
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#42
10-29-2007, 06:24 PM
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Re: Very interesting 100-200 hand. Need all the help i can get!
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i agree and dont post a tournament hand at 100/200 blinds and pretend its 100/200 no limit, there 2 completely different things, and this is the wrong forum for it [/ QUOTE ] Why would u think its a tournament hand?
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#43
10-29-2007, 06:38 PM
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Results and thoughts...
Ok thanks for the input. Zupp showed 8-9s.
I still think its a very interesting hand but I have to consider that its a slight possibility that im wrong here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], especially since alot of respected posters had said so... The ace on the river is the best possible card for both players (all agree on this right?) and that is what makes this hand interesting. Zupp can have only one and only one hand that beat us and when thats the case its usaually correct to call... I think its an easy call (but still brilliant) when you go thorugh Zupps handrange and when u consider what zupp think about Timex handrange, but thats in retrospect. Im curious as to what other posters think? Is this a good or bad call?
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#44
10-29-2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: Very interesting 100-200 hand. Need all the help i can get!
yea I don't get why people think this is a tournament hand
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#45
10-29-2007, 06:42 PM
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Re: Results and thoughts...
[ QUOTE ]
Ok thanks for the input. Zupp showed 8-9s. I still think its a very interesting hand but I have to consider that its a slight possibility that im wrong here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], especially since alot of respected posters had said so... The ace on the river is the best possible card for both players (all agree on this right?) and that is what makes this hand interesting. Zupp can have only one and only one hand that beat us and when thats the case its usaually correct to call... [/ QUOTE ] huh? 99+ is good and zupp can have almost any of the overpairs, any A and an 8 right? so that makes like a gajillion hands that beat us...
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#46
10-29-2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: Results and thoughts...
[ QUOTE ]
The ace on the river is the best possible card for both players (all agree on this right?) and that is what makes this hand interesting. Zupp can have only one and only one hand that beat us and when thats the case its usaually correct to call... [/ QUOTE ] Wait, what?? You're not even arguing wether or not Zapp is value-shoving JJ-KK here but that he is only showing up with quads or a bluff? That is absolutely ridiculous. The only way the A is a better card for Timex to attempt a (bad) hero-call on than a blank is if Zapp's play is very unbalanced and exploitable.
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#47
10-29-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: Very interesting 100-200 hand. Need all the help i can get!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] PartyGirl, [ QUOTE ] If he is at all competent he will be randomizing enough to make it pretty much neutral EV for Timex. [/ QUOTE ] Lol at this. Do u know how hard this is? Do u have any idea? Dont answer pls. [/ QUOTE ] ... Nezzar, being completely objective here, Jeff and PartyGirl are pretty much right about this hand... The only thing I see interesting about it is that it was a large pot and Timex called down. The ace is nearly an irrelevant card at these stakes because good players are jamming TT-KK on the river, too. [/ QUOTE ] I strongly disagree with the ace being irrelevant. Consider how timex would play A-J. I think he would play it exactly the same. At least i would... [/ QUOTE ] So you think Zupp checks back QQ and KK because of this?
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#48
10-29-2007, 06:58 PM
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Re: Results and thoughts...
[ QUOTE ]
Ok thanks for the input. Zupp showed 8-9s. I still think its a very interesting hand but I have to consider that its a slight possibility that im wrong here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], especially since alot of respected posters had said so... The ace on the river is the best possible card for both players (all agree on this right?) and that is what makes this hand interesting. Zupp can have only one and only one hand that beat us and when thats the case its usaually correct to call... I think its an easy call (but still brilliant) when you go thorugh Zupps handrange and when u consider what zupp think about Timex handrange, but thats in retrospect. Im curious as to what other posters think? Is this a good or bad call? [/ QUOTE ] wow it is NOT 1 hand that beats us. JJ+, Ax, 8x...
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#49
10-29-2007, 07:00 PM
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Re: Results and thoughts...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ok thanks for the input. Zupp showed 8-9s. I still think its a very interesting hand but I have to consider that its a slight possibility that im wrong here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], especially since alot of respected posters had said so... The ace on the river is the best possible card for both players (all agree on this right?) and that is what makes this hand interesting. Zupp can have only one and only one hand that beat us and when thats the case its usaually correct to call... [/ QUOTE ] huh? 99+ is good and zupp can have almost any of the overpairs, any A and an 8 right? so that makes like a gajillion hands that beat us... [/ QUOTE ] Sigh, 99+ is good but Zupp have to consider that an ace is in timex hand range and that he would play it the same (at least i would). Also Zupp would check behind on turn with a big part of his acehigh range for obvoius reasons. Im feeling that im not getting throu here... You have to realize why the Ace on the river is such a Goldcard for both players... It narrows down zupps handrange to bluff or nuts. I would call an 8-8-8-5-A board and fold an 8-8-8-5-2. Thats why the hand is interesting. Look at this hand i played yesterday its the same concept: ** Game ID 859269676 starting - 2007-10-29 06:33:46 ** Krakatoa [Hold 'em] (50.00|100.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money - Nebuchad sitting in seat 5 with $46484.00 - pinkDeeevil sitting in seat 6 with $13350.00 [Dealer] pinkDeeevil posted the small blind - $50.00 Nebuchad posted the big blind - $100.00 ** Dealing card to Nebuchad: 6 of Spades, 6 of Hearts pinkDeeevil raised - $350.00 Nebuchad called - $350.00 ** Dealing the flop: 3 of Clubs, 5 of Spades, 8 of Diamonds Nebuchad checked pinkDeeevil bet - $700.00 Nebuchad called - $700.00 ** Dealing the turn: Queen of Hearts Nebuchad checked pinkDeeevil bet - $1850.00 Nebuchad called - $1850.00 ** Dealing the river: Ace of Hearts Nebuchad checked pinkDeeevil bet - $3850.00 Nebuchad called - $3850.00 pinkDeeevil shows: 6 of Diamonds, 7 of Diamonds Nebuchad shows: 6 of Spades, 6 of Hearts Nebuchad wins $13499.00 from the main pot End of game 859269676 Now if the river would have been an 8, 5 or 3 I would have folded even tho it improves my hand. Do you see what im getting at?
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#50
10-29-2007, 07:05 PM
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Re: Results and thoughts...
Ehrm, you do realize that if AJ is a hand Timex should be calling on turn it means that he is doing this because Zupp fires a wide range on turn. Now, if this is true, this is the exact reason why Zupp SHOULD VB thin river, do you see why? You want Zupp to fire a wide range on turn and just give up 9 times out of 10 on river, or do you want Timex turncall with AJ to be really bad? You cannot have it both ways.
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