Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Other Topics > Science, Math, and Philosophy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Silent A Silent A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: out of the grid
Posts: 2,838
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

I just finished reading it over my lunch hour. Very good read. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:36 PM
Silent A Silent A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: out of the grid
Posts: 2,838
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because it's not meant to be a serious philosophical argument but a post hoc rationalization of why the world as it exists doesn't fit with their ideas about the fundamentally benevolent nature of their god.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well sure. I understand why people take this line, but it's important to hammer on why it's a worthless one to even consider. No need for Bible quotes or arguing through 5 pages of faith conflation on this one. Straight up reason vs. non-reason. So, what do theists have against reason?

[/ QUOTE ]

I only said it because it needed to be said openly.

Theists have this annoying habit of confusing complicated rationalization with compelling reason. It has come to a point where they can look at the huge body of "work" they've produced over the millennia and think that it's truly compelling.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:50 PM
tpir tpir is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,337
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

[ QUOTE ]
I only said it because it needed to be said openly.

Theists have this annoying habit of confusing complicated rationalization with compelling reason. It has come to a point where they can look at the huge body of "work" they've produced over the millennia and think that it's truly compelling.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am glad you said it. I like this direction of the debate in general. Especially after reading that Sam Harris article that was linked in SMP not too long ago. i.e. removing the theist v. atheist crap and going straight for the reason jugular.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:56 PM
kurto kurto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: in your heart
Posts: 6,777
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I only said it because it needed to be said openly.

Theists have this annoying habit of confusing complicated rationalization with compelling reason. It has come to a point where they can look at the huge body of "work" they've produced over the millennia and think that it's truly compelling.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am glad you said it. I like this direction of the debate in general. Especially after reading that Sam Harris article that was linked in SMP not too long ago. i.e. removing the theist v. atheist crap and going straight for the reason jugular.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that a lot of the theists whose jugular you're going for don't understand 'reason.'

wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii man is a new board theist. He's already admonished some non-believers for not being logical.

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is more then we know as facts and since we can exist, the universe does, and billion other things could that we do not know about, I feel it's pretty logical to take leaps of faith on things like religion if it gives us answers to our purpose on this earth , right and wrong, etc.

It takes Steps, I believe in my existence, I believe in a Creator, I believe in the infinite universe, the Bible makes sense to me, BOM clicks as truth to me, I felt the power the spirit that book brings. Put them together and I think it's more logical to have those convictions then just believing in randomness and nothing.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is what constitutes reason.

You're talking two different languages. Reason to a theist means "whatever sounds good that coincides with my beliefs."
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:11 PM
tpir tpir is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,337
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

[ QUOTE ]
You're talking two different languages. Reason to a theist means "whatever sounds good that coincides with my beliefs."

[/ QUOTE ]
Very true and a good point. If people want to be intellectually dishonest, there is nothing we can do other than point it out to them. The statements that Wiiii (and others) try to pass of as reason are anything but. They objectively fail tests for truth. This should concern them quite a bit if what they say is true and they were open-minded.

If the God they propose existed, there would be good reasons to believe so unless he was tricking us or testing us, in which case the entire topic falls apart. That is my one sentence summary objection to theism. Can any theists here address it?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:12 PM
Sephus Sephus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,994
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:19 PM
Sephus Sephus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,994
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

[ QUOTE ]
If the God they propose existed, there would be good reasons to believe so unless he was tricking us or testing us, in which case the entire topic falls apart. That is my one sentence summary objection to theism. Can any theists here address it?

[/ QUOTE ]

there are good reasons. see this link about fulfilled prophecies. if god didn't exist then how do you explain these prophecies? on second thought, don't tell me. just read this huge list of prophecies and be edified.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:25 PM
tpir tpir is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,337
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the God they propose existed, there would be good reasons to believe so unless he was tricking us or testing us, in which case the entire topic falls apart. That is my one sentence summary objection to theism. Can any theists here address it?

[/ QUOTE ]

there are good reasons. see this <a href="bullshiat" target="_blank">link</a> about fulfilled prophecies. if god didn't exist then how do you explain these prophecies? on second thought, don't tell me. just read this huge list of prophecies and be edified.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ the link, I tried clicking on it first. My request was kind of stupid in retrospect since it had already been established that jury-rigged reasoning will be used.

I am a glutton for punishment I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-16-2007, 05:16 AM
KeysrSoze KeysrSoze is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Picking beans in Guatemala
Posts: 631
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

I don't get all the anger. You should be happy that now there is a very slight chance of an influx of new blood into the pokerworld: religious fanatics who think God will give them a two-outer.

Could happen!
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:31 AM
rakes.a.beach rakes.a.beach is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Abs. Poka @ UCLA
Posts: 1,043
Default Re: God helped Jerry Yang win WSOP!

It's kinda hard to follow this debate when splendour doesn't use any periods. I just read kurto's responses so it became a one sided debate.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.