Can I be good here?

[Riku]

I think you've got it. I like these summaries. It's good to summarize the hand and the reasons why it should be played in a certain way. That way you can make it part of your logical thinking process in the future hands you play.

[CrMenace]

Thanks Riku, that's the idea. In practice, I usually just go "ZOMGWTFLOL I just got donked into," go into spasms and fold.

[Christian_Peters]

I don't think you have odds to call here and this hand in a vacuum, I think it's a pretty standard fold. But closing the action for 1SB, I'm peeling here frequently for anti-tilt value.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
V4P, I don't mind folding at all, but if u gonna play it, a raise is helluva better than calldown.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Raise or fold" is still the worst phrase in the micros. I like a call and reevaluate but it's not a peel so much as a "let's see what they do on the turn." If UTG has Ax he will tell you on the turn.

[BigBadBabar]

raising is a lot worse than calling down

[tailspin4540]

[ QUOTE ]
If SB has an Ace.. he is not leading this flop after the preflop action. He can easily have any pocket pair here, or 2 diamonds. I'm more concerned about UTGs call than SBs bet as UTG has a ton of Aces in his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

With no reads, I might be inclined to think the opposite. You don't think SB could have some crap like A4 here and is donking to protect? (I'll grant that it's likely he's doing the same thing with jacks or tens.)

Agreed that UTG's flop call is frightening. Still, I call, but I really don't want to put any more money in this pot unimproved.

[RemyXO]

I am putting myself in danger of enraging the powers or micros, but calling is the worst option, I am gonna stick to my opinion.

According to the Fundamental Theorem of Poker, if someone has an Ace, you should be folding. If nobody does, you should be raising since you have the best hand and want the others pay you off and flush draws go away. And y'all are opting for "let's call and see what happens".

Calling accomplishes nothing, IMHO. Raising sets you up better for the more expensive streets play and lets you get away from the hand right here on the flop if reraised. All for one extra small bet. Not to mention it gets more money in and charges the drawing hands if you are ahead.

If turn goes check/check what do you do?
If turn goes bet/call what do you do?
If turn goes check/bet what do you do?
You are only fine if turn goes bet/raise and you muck.

Also, I don't see why you guys have so much trouble with raise/folding. Standard play.

I may be totally wrong here, but I'd rather be wrong on the aggressive side.

BBB, you don't justify your statement that raising is much worse than calling down. Now - get angry [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]


Also, I don't see why you guys have so much trouble with raise/folding. Standard play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet/folding is one thing and has its place, but IMO contemplated/done far too much by "TAG" players in the micros.

raise/folding on the other-hand is FAR from a "standard play" and should not be done much at all, unless you are facing 2 more when it comes back to you. But to say that you plan on raising and folding for one bet, especially in a bloated pot is just not to great IMHO.

[RemyXO]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Also, I don't see why you guys have so much trouble with raise/folding. Standard play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet/folding is one thing and has its place, but IMO contemplated/done far too much by "TAG" players in the micros.

raise/folding on the other-hand is FAR from a "standard play" and should not be done much at all, unless you are facing 2 more when it comes back to you. But to say that you plan on raising and folding for one bet, especially in a bloated pot is just not to great IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just tell me, what hand would reraise you here besides another Ace or treys in the hole? Flush draws won't do it 3-handed. It's not $10/$20, it micros.

I would also argue that if an Ace reraises, it will be an Ace with a very good kicker, not some A5o.

BTW, I did not necessarily mean raise/fold on the same street. You could raise the flop, but fold the turn.

[RemyXO]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If SB has an Ace.. he is not leading this flop after the preflop action. He can easily have any pocket pair here, or 2 diamonds. I'm more concerned about UTGs call than SBs bet as UTG has a ton of Aces in his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

With no reads, I might be inclined to think the opposite. You don't think SB could have some crap like A4 here and is donking to protect? (I'll grant that it's likely he's doing the same thing with jacks or tens.)

Agreed that UTG's flop call is frightening.
Still, I call, but I really don't want to put any more money in this pot unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what you are really doing is calling with 23.5:1 odds and pot is laying you 12:1. If you are going to fold to a bet on the turn unless you spike a King, you should be folding the flop!