AJ - I keep betting

[neurotiq]

With only one overcard, I think I'm checking behind on the flop.

On the turn, I'm definitely not firing the second bullet, not when two others liked their hands enough to see me through to the turn. Take the free card, and hope to hit your flush on the river.

On the river, I'm check-folding. Unimproved ace high isn't great when the others have hung with you this far.

[Rant]

I'm surprised by some of the comments on this one.

I like the pre-flop raise. You are ahead of their range - both limped.

I like the c/b. If we weren't last to act and checked to then I probably wouldn't do it but I think there is value here in keeping control.

I definitely bet the turn here. At these stakes I've seen players c/c the flop and then fold to the turn bet A LOT. Especially against your pre-flop raise I think they will fold to your turn bet here very often. If they both fold even 20% of the time it is the right thing to do.

I check behind on the river. You might get a better hand to fold - x3 or x5 - but SB is very passive 20/1/0.64 so he may have a K here fairly often. I doubt you'll get both players to fold often enough to make the river bet worthwhile as a bluff. With 2 players calling all the way I don't think we can value bet A high.

[Xhad]

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I definitely bet the turn here. At these stakes I've seen players c/c the flop and then fold to the turn bet A LOT.

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This doesn't mean you should indiscriminately bet regardless of the actual turn card and action. FWIW I don't mind a turn bet if it were an offsuit K.

[Christian_Peters]

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Point is, the problem isn't top pair although Kx is in everybodys range.

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Yeah, Kx is in everybody's range...so is T8o, J7s, Q9o, A2o, and about 40 other hands that you are ahead of.

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Its the combination of a 4-handed pot with a weak hand on a drawy board and middle and small PP pairs that isn't folding that makes me think this a non-lol c-bet.

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On a scale of 1-10 of drawiness, this board is about a 6.5.


I'm not going to say IMO, because it's a fact, if you are habitually checking in spots like this, you are going to be very easy to read. What you'll find is that you will get less action when you actually do have a hand because all your observant opponents will know that you don't "bluff" c-bet. (I put bluff in quotes because it might not be a bluff, we may have the best hand - in fact, I'd say the evidence thus far only suggests that we have the best hand, and not that we have a second best hand).

Let me ask you, how would this flop have to be different for you to c-bet with the button when checked to?

What if it was rainbow?

What if if was Kh 3s 6s?

[Xylocain]

Why would you think I wouldn't c-bet this flop given my posts?

I am calling BS on the logic for advocaing c-betting and I think there is progress in this thread. Its fine if you are 8-tabling to auto c-bet. The question I asked and is what constitute perfect play, and why?

Notice you have slid your focus from zomg-bet-for-value to meta game. Against LPPs metagame is FWIW pretty useless at 0.1/0.2.

I'm relatively sure that the EV difference between checking and betting is on the 3rd decimal or so. To automatically throw away a SB multiway after PFR is a leak IMO.

[Aaron W.]

The flop bet is fine. I would be more inclined to check behind if the flop came down K98 as now there are lots of mid-range cards for players to match, as well as lots of draws for everyone to chase.

The turn bet is stupid and the river bet is even worse.

[Christian_Peters]

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Against LPPs metagame is FWIW pretty useless at 0.1/0.2.

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True that.

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I'm relatively sure that the EV difference between checking and betting is on the 3rd decimal or so.

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True that.


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To automatically throw away a SB multiway after PFR is a leak IMO.

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For this hand, I'll agree to disagree.

[TarHeel100]

I'm checking behind on the turn......you are up against 3 opponents, at least one of which doesn't look like he ever folds based on his stats. Somebody probably has something at this point and you have nearly nothing. Enjoy your free card on the turn and see what happens on the river.