Attorney General: Gitmo disgraceful, should close

[Cyrus]

That's the British Attorney General, of course.

[ QUOTE ]
LONDON, England (AP) -- The U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay discredits the American tradition as a beacon of freedom and justice and should close, Britain's attorney general said Wednesday.
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Attorney General Lord Goldsmith called the Guantanamo camp's existence "unacceptable," the strongest condemnation of the prison by a British government official.
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"There are certain principles on which there can be no compromise," Goldsmith said. "Fair trial is one of those. Not only would it in my personal opinion be right to close Guantanamo as a matter of principle, I believe it would also help to remove what has become a symbol to many -- right or wrong -- of injustice".


[/ QUOTE ]

CNN

[Cyrus]

But no one told these soldiers:

[ QUOTE ]
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- "Don't let me die! Please, don't let me die," the U.S. soldier said repeatedly as medics carried him to the trauma room. His glazed eyes focused on an Army chaplain kneeling over him. There was blood everywhere.
. . .
In Iraq, roughly 17,500 U.S. troops have been wounded, and nearly 2,500 have been killed. The survival rate is significantly higher than in previous wars, and much credit goes to those working to save lives in places such as the 10th Combat Support Hospital.

[/ QUOTE ]

CNN

[cambraceres]

Cyrus, I think you need to reread, MAJOR combat operations in Iraq have ceased. I have a purple heart recipient working for me, wounded in Iraq late last year, and when we had this same conversation, he related that there was fighting, but no war. For every month of extreme boredom, there is 20 seconds of panic, so he said. FYI this individual was wounded by schrapnel from a conventional weapon.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but if what is happening in IRaq is major, then how would you characterize a large WWII battle, like Hurtgen or Kursk?

Much Love

Cam

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
MAJOR combat operations in Iraq have ceased.

[/ QUOTE ]It is a sad, numerical fact that more people have died in the period after "major operations" have been declared over, in that ugly ceremony onboard the aircraft carrier, than before. (link) The commander-in-chief was not talking like a commander-in-chief. More like a two-bit shyster who runs for town mayor.

[ QUOTE ]
If what is happening in Iraq is major, then how would you characterize a large WWII battle, like Hurtgen or Kursk?

[/ QUOTE ] At the heart of the problem is exactly this kind of mentality -- which, I cannot but repeat it, is the same mentality that pervaded the American strategy in Vietnam, for many years.

The American political administration, then as now, thinks it is sufficient to overwhelmingly defeat the enemy in "open battles" and then occupy the enemy's country for the war to be over and won. But war, as we are all supposed to know, must never be seen as a purpose to itself, but as a means of physically forcing one's will on an opponent (link). In that sense, the war's "major combat operations" were indeed won but the war in Iraq is been lost. This is what is shown by events in the post-"victory" phase of pacifying the country, rebuilding the country's administration, and "physically forcing America's will on the opponent".

In May 2003, therefore, the major phase of the Iraqi war not "over", in fact, but was just beginning! The commander-in-chief should know this -- and say as much to his soldiers and to the nation.

And if he genuinely did not know this, then he is clearly an ignorant, incompetent and dangerous leader.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a sad, numerical fact that more people have died in the period after "major operations" have been declared over, in that ugly ceremony onboard the aircraft carrier, than before.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is also a sad numerical fact that more servicemen have died stateside in vehicle accidents so far this year, than have in Iraq due to combat related injuries.

Strange but true.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MAJOR combat operations in Iraq have ceased.

[/ QUOTE ]It is a sad, numerical fact that more people have died in the period after "major operations" have been declared over, in that ugly ceremony onboard the aircraft carrier, than before. (link) The commander-in-chief was not talking like a commander-in-chief. More like a two-bit shyster who runs for town mayor.

[ QUOTE ]
If what is happening in Iraq is major, then how would you characterize a large WWII battle, like Hurtgen or Kursk?

[/ QUOTE ] At the heart of the problem is exactly this kind of mentality -- which, I cannot but repeat it, is the same mentality that pervaded the American strategy in Vietnam, for many years.

The American political administration, then as now, thinks it is sufficient to overwhelmingly defeat the enemy in "open battles" and then occupy the enemy's country for the war to be over and won. But war, as we are all supposed to know, must never be seen as a purpose to itself, but as a means of physically forcing one's will on an opponent (link). In that sense, the war's "major combat operations" were indeed won but the war in Iraq is been lost. This is what is shown by events in the post-"victory" phase of pacifying the country, rebuilding the country's administration, and "physically forcing America's will on the opponent".

In May 2003, therefore, the major phase of the Iraqi war not "over", in fact, but was just beginning! The commander-in-chief should know this -- and say as much to his soldiers and to the nation.

And if he genuinely did not know this, then he is clearly an ignorant, incompetent and dangerous leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

that you conveniently left "combat" out of your bolded statement is duly noted.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is a sad, numerical fact that more people have died in the period after "major operations" have been declared over, in that ugly ceremony onboard the aircraft carrier, than before.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is also a sad numerical fact that more servicemen have died stateside in vehicle accidents so far this year, than have in Iraq due to combat related injuries.


[/ QUOTE ]Brilliant. As long as "stateside vehicle accidents" cause more deaths than the Iraqi war, we're OK.

Anyone knows if the Pentagon is working on a scheme to increase vehicle accidents stateside? They should be.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In May 2003, therefore, the major phase of the Iraqi war not "over", in fact, but was just beginning! The commander-in-chief should know this -- and say as much to his soldiers and to the nation.



[/ QUOTE ]

That you conveniently left "combat" out of your bolded statement is duly noted.

[/ QUOTE ]That's because the "major combat operations" part was not as relevant to the outcome of the war as was the part after that. I explained it very clearly.

When one sees fewer casualties during what the commander-in-chief characterized as "major combat operations" than afterwards, this fact alone should have set people thinking a bit more carefully as to where actually the major part of the war's operations lies.

[BluffTHIS!]

You don't put rabid dogs in your best kennel.