Folding pocket pairs

fybpm · #1 11-04-2007, 04:24 AM

Anyone read a good article before in relation to the mentality of overplaying pocket pairs?

I mean, in tons of situations, when people are more likely WAY BEHIND in the hand, they continue to bet, raise, and call off chips on mediocre hands. Just trying to mentally grasp what people are thinking here, so I can make sure to not do the same thing. Sometimes I try to make moves with PP when I feel I'm up against a c-bet, but nothing of this magnitude... I mean. Lets say this guy had KQ instead of QQ and there was a Q on the board, do you think THEN he could fold his pair of queens?

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($1612.50)
SB ($984.75)
BB ($1523.75)
Hero ($945)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $40, 1 fold, SB calls $30, BB calls $20.

Flop: ($120) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $60, Hero raises to $160, SB calls $160, BB folds.

Turn: ($500) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $400, SB raises to $784.75 (All-In), Hero calls $345 (All-In).

River: ($2029.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)
.

Final Pot: $2029.75

Results in white below: 
SB has Qs Qc (two pair, queens and nines).
Hero has 9s Kd (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins $1990. SB wins $39.75. 

What drives people to throw money into a pot, I'd like to know some psychology on it if there has ever been any written on such a topic. I think this thread has potential.

Gonso · #2 11-04-2007, 04:32 AM

It really depends, I mean against certain villians I like this line, especially betting the scare card. There are a lot of hands he beats that are within your range.

fybpm · #3 11-04-2007, 04:41 AM

Well I mean I understand the play, but I posted in this section of the forum to try to understand the mentality of it.

Now you say you call because of a range of hands you could put me on... but flip it, now you have KQ (not clubs) and there is a Q on the board instead of a 6? Do you call now?

I see it all the time, I had AA earlier on a KJ8 board and someone re-raised me all in with 66 for over $800! Are pocket pairs really that pretty? Would he have made that same 'bluff' with a 6 on the board and 1 in his hand?

Styhn · #4 11-04-2007, 05:13 AM

I understand your point, sometimes it's like people are like "I simply CAN'T fold my pp... I HAVE to play it." Very strange.

Nichlemn · #5 11-04-2007, 05:26 AM

I believe it's due to confusing preflop strength and postflop strength. QQ is much better preflop than Qx, so that mentality sticks even as hand strengths change with the community cards.

Unfortunately for them, it's an even bigger blunder than overvaluing their Qx on a board with an overcard, as they only have 2 possible outs as opposed to 5.

Gonso · #6 11-04-2007, 05:46 AM

that, and QQ in the hole isn't very obv compared to one on the board. Not knowing your hole cards and without any read, I'd expect QQ would be good on that flop the vast majority of the time.

Rek · #7 11-04-2007, 07:07 AM

QQ is great pre flop obviously. Some players then can't lay it down because psycologically they have already decided that they have the hand won. These players we like.

The difference with the example of holding KQ is that pre flop they haven't already decided that this hand "owes" them the win.

In your example though he played ok post flop IMHO. Why the **** he was not raising pre flop is beyond me though.

futuredoc85 · #8 11-04-2007, 08:07 AM

OP if that hand is really at 10/20 dont play that high anymore.

fybpm · #9 11-06-2007, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OP if that hand is really at 10/20 dont play that high anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll assume you're saying this because I raise PF with k9off? The game was shorthanded. Also, QQ didnt reraise if you notice that. If you're talking about something other than the PF raise, enlighten me.

sh58 · #10 11-06-2007, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OP if that hand is really at 10/20 dont play that high anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

seems fairly standard to me