TT out of position vs two opponents

efficacy · #1 11-08-2007, 07:47 PM

comments on all streets?

MP is 68/23 over 30 hands
CO is 51/24 over 110 hands

PokerStars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP raises, CO 3-bets, Button folds, Hero caps!, BB folds, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.00 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls.

River: (11.00 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, CO calls, Hero folds.

Realyn · #2 11-08-2007, 07:51 PM

fine? obviously a river call against 1 of them.

i think u are not good here(turn+river) very often, but often enough vs 2 68/23 51/24 guys to get to the showdown. Also the jack sucks :/

aargh57 · #3 11-09-2007, 08:31 AM

I think I play it the same but I call if I get it to 1 opponent on the river. Not sure if calling is correct if the river is a spade jack vs 1 opponent or not. Hell, not sure if the line I suggest is correct either for that matter.

TheDudeChad · #4 11-09-2007, 12:29 PM

I like the whole hand, and I think this is probably a good river fold, but just to play devil's advocate for a minute:

I'm having a tough time putting MP on any reasonable hand after he bets the river here except maybe QT and JJ. IMO, his line just screams I'm FOS. CO calls, with what could be anything from KQ to QJ to 66, and you're getting 12:1 closing the action...

Even though its only over 30 hands, I think a 68/23 has bluffed in crazier spots.

After thinking about it I may have actually convinced myself that this is a call.

Fo10 · #5 11-09-2007, 01:04 PM

If the river is a duece of hearts, what are we doing? I always feel like I'm betting K4s for one of these clowns when this happens.

On this hand I like how it's played, we could be ahead until the river, where another overcard comes, and also straight draw (which is unlikely since we have two of the tens, but still possible) came in. Easy check, and easy fold when CO overcalls.

efficacy · #6 11-09-2007, 10:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the river is a duece of hearts, what are we doing? I always feel like I'm betting K4s for one of these clowns when this happens.

On this hand I like how it's played, we could be ahead until the river, where another overcard comes, and also straight draw (which is unlikely since we have two of the tens, but still possible) came in. Easy check, and easy fold when CO overcalls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prob bet again on blank river. The problem with the jack is that it hits a ton of draw combos: QJ / QT / JT, so that is like 4*3 + 4*2 + 3*2 = 26 combos that just improved to a straight or a better pair.

idk... I felt like the river was close.

Apanage · #7 11-09-2007, 10:33 PM

Call river.These guys are not to be trusted.The pot is too big to fold for one bet.
Any hand reading in this hand is not reliable.

KDawg · #8 11-10-2007, 12:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call river.These guys are not to be trusted.The pot is too big to fold for one bet.
Any hand reading in this hand is not reliable.

[/ QUOTE ]

except that we're overcalling and the jack river is just really bad. A gutshot has just come in, and the QJ gutter combo has also now hit. We also can't rule out AJ because our opponents aren't exactly of the smart variety. The problem is that we're over calling, if it's HU it's a call IMO and if it's a blank river I think it's bet and pray, but this spot just sucks and folding is the prudent plan

Apanage · #9 11-10-2007, 09:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call river.These guys are not to be trusted.The pot is too big to fold for one bet.
Any hand reading in this hand is not reliable.

[/ QUOTE ]

except that we're overcalling and the jack river is just really bad. A gutshot has just come in, and the QJ gutter combo has also now hit. We also can't rule out AJ because our opponents aren't exactly of the smart variety. The problem is that we're over calling, if it's HU it's a call IMO and if it's a blank river I think it's bet and pray, but this spot just sucks and folding is the prudent plan

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO it is wrong to give a bettor and a caller too much credit with two clowns involved.We are getting 13:1.I´ll admit our chances are not very good but there are some facts pointing out that we could be getting the right odds.

* Nobody probably has a king
* There is a flush draw on the board
* CO does not seem to have an especially good hand.A J (QJ,JT,AJ) hand is possible.But not more likely than A9 or 88-66
* You checked river which means that any action you get is less reliable than if you had bet.