AA ugly Rivercard

Volkan-20 · #1 11-09-2007, 11:45 AM

bsolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, CO folds.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11BB, 2 players)
Hero ?

Ok every draw just came in. What is the best play here? First orbit so no reads yet. check/fold is obviously not an option, check/call not really great since he can play perfectly against me and I dont think he will bet a worse hand ever and i lose value against worse ones. I know I wont be able to Bet/fold in this spot. And Bet/call also sucks because i payoff so many times when behind.
What do you think?

Results:
Final pot: 11BB

xerber · #2 11-09-2007, 11:56 AM

I b/c and hope to see Tx - b/f if i have good reads.

Oink · #3 11-09-2007, 12:07 PM

Seems like a standard bet/fold to me.

Betting is far better than c/c here IMO.

frenchpignouf · #4 11-09-2007, 12:23 PM

I'm not comfortable with b/f, we can beat T7 and T8.

ShipItCrucial · #5 11-09-2007, 12:51 PM

Why is a b/f better then a c/c here?

I personally would c/c. All the draws got there but you can beat any 10(not 10-6 obv) and he could be bluffing(sucks we don't have a read yet).
There are 11BB in the pot already....so while you are probably beat you only need to be good 8% of the time.

I'm new to this game and forum...so please lemme know if anything I wrote is redonkulous or poop. I'm here to get better.

Fo10 · #6 11-09-2007, 12:54 PM

Reads are big in this spot. What does he cold call three (well two since he's in the BB) and then raise the flop with?

Since there is no read, I would put him on a pp 22-99, excluding 66, A10-J10, or QJs KJs, even maybe KQs hearts. Since hero has the ace of hearts, and the ten of hearts is on the board, a lot of likely flush draw hands are taken, so the odds of him being on a flush draw less likely. Problem is, two of the hands we were beating before the river now are beating us, 77 and 99.

Using this range, I b/f, I can't put him on 107 or 108, so basically every hand he raises beats us. Also, b/f is better than c/c because he may not bet A10-J10 hands.

ShipItCrucial · #7 11-09-2007, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reads are big in this spot. What does he cold call three (well two since he's in the BB) and then raise the flop with?

Since there is no read, I would put him on a pp 22-99, excluding 66, A10-J10, or QJs KJs, even maybe KQs hearts. Since hero has the ace of hearts, and the ten of hearts is on the board, a lot of likely flush draw hands are taken, so the odds of him being on a flush draw less likely. Problem is, two of the hands we were beating before the river now are beating us, 77 and 99.

Using this range, I b/f, I can't put him on 107 or 108, so basically every hand he raises beats us. Also, b/f is better than c/c because he may not bet A10-J10 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

TY. I wanted to know the reasoning behind b/f rather than c/c.

TheDudeChad · #8 11-09-2007, 01:03 PM

Ugh I would have a tough time bet/folding here in such a big pot against an unknown. Bet/calling looks awful too. And if BB has a clue than check/calling is bad.

Since we got nothing, I'd probably check/call and make a note.

frenchpignouf · #9 11-09-2007, 01:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reads are big in this spot. What does he cold call three (well two since he's in the BB) and then raise the flop with?

Since there is no read, I would put him on a pp 22-99, excluding 66, A10-J10, or QJs KJs, even maybe KQs hearts. Since hero has the ace of hearts, and the ten of hearts is on the board, a lot of likely flush draw hands are taken, so the odds of him being on a flush draw less likely. Problem is, two of the hands we were beating before the river now are beating us, 77 and 99.

Using this range, I b/f, I can't put him on 107 or 108, so basically every hand he raises beats us. Also, b/f is better than c/c because he may not bet A10-J10 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

You made a good point about flush draws, but I disagree with your range for an unknown. I just found a hand with J6o for BB at 5/10 with the same pf action. Just put T7s and T8s in his range seems a fair discount imo. I don't say b/f is wrong, but I can't convince myself.

@chipitcrucial the idea is : if we are beat, BB bets if we check, but checks behind very often a worst hand. So if we are 99.9% sure we are beat when BB raises, b/f win very often 1 more bet when we have the best hand.

Fo10 · #10 11-09-2007, 02:09 PM

If you put 108 and 107 in his range, you have to ask is he going to raise that on the river? If he has 108 then I don't think so, because he would have raised the turn. The river card is a big scare card for 108. I also don't think he raises 107, even though he upgraded to two pair, again, that's a very scary card for his hand.