New to Omaha, how's this hand?

ZimbuTheMonkey · #1 08-27-2006, 05:31 PM

Hey guys. I'm trying to increase my knowledge and skill in non-hold'em games, and I'm not sure if I played this one correctly. The converter doesn't seem to work, so here's the raw HH:

***** Hand History for Game 5042311359 *****
$100 PL Omaha - Sunday, August 27, 17:18:43 ET 2006
Table Table 96556 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: meltyman67 ( $121.35 )
Seat 2: JPH45 ( $32.13 )
Seat 5: DCP48 ( $49.42 )
Seat 6: ATCCU ( $153.60 )
Seat 8: hailrain ( $218.73 )
Seat 9: galarzra ( $238.64 )
Seat 10: TheChipNinja ( $118.95 )
Seat 4: johnny_blue ( $95 )
Seat 7: tomtefold ( $98 )
Seat 3: Petmol ( $0 )
DCP48 posts small blind [$0.50].
ATCCU posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheChipNinja [ Ac 4d Jh As ]
tomtefold folds.
hailrain calls [$1].
TheChipNinja calls [$1].
meltyman67 calls [$1].
JPH45 calls [$1].
johnny_blue folds.
DCP48 folds.
ATCCU checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, 5s, Ah ]
ATCCU checks.
hailrain checks.
TheChipNinja bets [$5.25].
meltyman67 folds.
JPH45 calls [$5.25].
ATCCU folds.
hailrain folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
TheChipNinja checks.
JPH45 bets [$15.20].
TheChipNinja folds.
JPH45 does not show cards.
JPH45 wins $30.40

Ribbo · #2 08-27-2006, 05:41 PM

Okay, so you check the turn and he bets $15. You have $80 left, but unfortunately for you your opponent only has $10 now.
So lets back up. Bet the turn instead, the pot of $15, he may still call you here with a set, but I don't see him with a flush draw (since you have the Ace) unless it's also with a straight wrap.

Now if the guy, like you had bought in for $100 I would check the turn, when he bets $15 on the turn, I would min raise to $30. Since this is exactly how a lot of people play a nut flush draw that hit the turn. If he calls, this leaves you $50 with which to bet the river, into the $75 pot. Significant enough that he should now fold since he has to assume you have the Ace.

shpongled · #3 08-27-2006, 07:27 PM

I might play it the same way. The guy is short-stacked, so it's going to be more difficult to bluff him. If I think he's at all capable of folding the 2nd nuts, though, I bet $10-$15 on the turn. This is only if I'm familiar with the player.

ZimbuTheMonkey · #4 08-28-2006, 05:16 AM

He wasn't capable of folding the second nuts. He was playing very loose and crazy.

But the reason I folded is because of his very short stack. I figured that the implied odds for filling up were just not there. If he had more behind him, I would have called the 15 and hoped for the board to pair so that I could stack him. Is that reasonable?

Klak · #5 08-28-2006, 05:33 AM

your reasoning is completly logical, but i would just pot the turn and call his push. checking leaves you open to him bluffing you out when the 3rd spade comes. if he is as crazy as you say, im still very confident about my hand on the turn. with a very definate read, checkraising him all in on the turn seems like the best option.

CallYNotRaise06 · #6 08-28-2006, 12:33 PM

you are ahead here more often than you think. i get it in.

glass_onion · #7 08-28-2006, 03:02 PM

good advice if opp had $100, but

"Bet the turn instead, the pot of $15, he may still call you here with a set, but I don't see him with a flush draw (since you have the Ace) unless it's also with a straight wrap. "

doesn't work, since the 3rd flush card hit river. Therefore, he can't fold he flush draw.

Now, everyone else is saying bet or check/call or bet call. I don't see that it can be this simple, of just betting all your sets into opponents when bad cards hit on turn.

So the line has to be opponent specific: He has a small stack, and is crazy. Otherwise, the right play has to be c/c or c/f. Right?

Silent A · #8 08-28-2006, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I figured that the implied odds for filling up were just not there. If he had more behind him, I would have called the 15 and hoped for the board to pair so that I could stack him. Is that reasonable?

[/ QUOTE ]

General rule of thumb : on the turn, with a set against an obvious flush or straight, villain has to have slightly more left behind than he just bet (assuming he pot bets it) to barely have enough odds in the best possible situation.

Here, since he bet $15.20, he must have a bit over $15.20 left to give you the absolute minimum implied odds to call (i.e. if neither of you hold any of your outs and rake is a non-issue).

However, since he'll sometimes be holding some of your outs, and the rake is significant at these stakes, you actually want him to have about 1.5 times left over (i.e. enough to call a 1/2 pot bet on the river). And that still assumes he always calls on the river.

And that minimum 1.5 increases to 2.0 and 2.5 if you hold 1 or 2 of your own outs.

Ribbo · #9 08-28-2006, 09:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
good advice if opp had $100, but

"Bet the turn instead, the pot of $15, he may still call you here with a set, but I don't see him with a flush draw (since you have the Ace) unless it's also with a straight wrap. "

doesn't work, since the 3rd flush card hit river. Therefore, he can't fold he flush draw.

Now, everyone else is saying bet or check/call or bet call. I don't see that it can be this simple, of just betting all your sets into opponents when bad cards hit on turn.

So the line has to be opponent specific: He has a small stack, and is crazy. Otherwise, the right play has to be c/c or c/f. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What on earth are you babbling about? The third flush card hit the TURN. You can't make a counter statement if you haven't even had the decency to read the hand history.

shpongled · #10 08-30-2006, 12:31 AM

If you call, you need to win a 2/3 pot size bet on the river when you fill just to break even, and more for the call to be profitable. In this situation, he'd be facing a bet on a paired board with a non-nut flush. Your implied odds usually aren't good enough, but it depends on the player.