November "I FORGOT MY MANTRA" Low Content chit-chat thread

[Orlando Salazar]

Also, I'm applying to McKinsey corp fin. Any advice?

[Runkmud]

Wow Katy, I'm sorry to hear that. I'd try to talk to him to find out what the real issue is. Find out whether it's something you did to him that your unaware of, or if he's just going through some midlife crisis. The way it sounds though, it probably won't be fixed through negotiation. If it can't, and he ever threatens you with physical violence, go straight to your boss. Try to grease the wheels of his departure. There's nothing worse than having a job you hate going too, and by the sounds of it, it might be a him or you type situation. Make it him.

[MrWookie]

Katy,

I think one explanation is that that he's eying the company ladder. He sees you, since you and he work together and since you have 8 years on him, as his major competition. The manner in which he's demeaning you could be his way to try and leapfrog over you and on up the ranks and the pay scale. And if I'm right about this, it looks like he might be winning. You sound like you're bending over to his aggression. Runkmund is right here. Certainly go to your superiors if he threatens you with violence again. This could very well be a "him or you" situation, and while I'm sure you hate to lose a friend over something like this, I think he's already broken that friendship. There's no friendship there to lose at this point. I'd suggest standing up for yourself in front of him, especially if he's acting like this in front of other people, especially if those people are relevant to your career path. Don't just ask him if he's kidding and then roll over. Instead, compose yourself, and in a calm but firm voice, call him out for his rudeness and overstepping his bounds.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
Kimbell. I am contested out. And I would like to think that someone would toggle this in their faves for more than the pictures.

I think a critical discussion of albums, links, reviews on looks and fashions. I think having everyone write shining reviews of their favorite female artists, and especially individual songs by female artists would be the best way. There are several songs that I like, but can't stand the rest of her stuff. "Fragile" by Jennifer Marks comes to mind.

I like how you came here and decided to discuss it first.

Edit to add: Simply writing: love Mozilla, is not going to cut it. There is no way to enforce the rule, but if you are going to put this much pre-thought into it, may as well up the ante a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for a female singer/songwriter appreciation thread...no need for a contest...Kimbell, if you start with someone, i'll certainly add to it...

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
Katy,

I think one explanation is that that he's eying the company ladder. He sees you, since you and he work together and since you have 8 years on him, as his major competition. The manner in which he's demeaning you could be his way to try and leapfrog over you and on up the ranks and the pay scale. And if I'm right about this, it looks like he might be winning. You sound like you're bending over to his aggression. Runkmund is right here. Certainly go to your superiors if he threatens you with violence again. This could very well be a "him or you" situation, and while I'm sure you hate to lose a friend over something like this, I think he's already broken that friendship. There's no friendship there to lose at this point. I'd suggest standing up for yourself in front of him, especially if he's acting like this in front of other people, especially if those people are relevant to your career path. Don't just ask him if he's kidding and then roll over. Instead, compose yourself, and in a calm but firm voice, call him out for his rudeness and overstepping his bounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wookie is right on. Do not confuse your job with your friendship. The guy is messing with your livlihood by doing this. Don't let it continue.

Because when it comes down to him or you, guess which one he's going to choose? Make sure you do the same.

also, when you confront him about this, you might want to do it in the presence of your HR person or your boss. Trying to keep it between the two of you will only lead to "he said, she said" problems later. Nip this in the bud now.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I change the topic for a minute? I'm having work problems.

I'm dreading going into work today. There's this guy who is giving me a hard time. He's decided to comment on everything I say, even my tone of voice. I could make a comment on the donuts and he lashes out at me. It's become bizarre. Once he told me he was going to punch me in the face if I didn't sit back down in my seat. It was truly out in left field seeing as how he is my friend. We were never enemies.

Friday he scolded me in front of all our coworkers for my "attitude". It was the most frustrating situation because he butted in where he wasn't needed and then had the nerve to comment on my tone of voice with another manager. He was serious too. I was like "are you kidding?" He goes "no I am not kidding."

I mean up until Friday this guy was my friend. Everyone comments on how well he and I work together. We've gone out socially and even been to each other's homes. We've been paired up to work evenings together because we get along so great. He tried to make up for his poor behavior late in the day but I was pretty depressed about it. Why would a guy who is 8 years younger than me become increasingly aggressive?

Btw, he's extremely obnoxious to his wife. He's almost a bully. Personally I can't stand to listen to him on the phone. It makes me cringe.

Any advice on how to handle a coworker like this? Talking to him about it makes him go all red in the face.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, you shouldn't for an instant let this guy talk this way to you, especially in front of co-workers. Basically, he has instantly lost an expensive lawsuit for his company. You could walk away with $25,000 easily for his threat. Don't worry, they wouldn't fight it. Their insurance company wouldn't let them, because the insurance company doesn't want to pay $100,000. P.S.: Make a trip to the doctor to seal the deal on your emotional trauma, if you like. But it's not necessary. You have already won any action you hope to bring up. This is even more the case because this was done in front of other managers and not immediately and firmly corrected by them. EVERYONE is guilty now of creating and sustaining the environment, or at least can be said to be so successfully.

Also, you should in no uncertain terms, but calmly no matter what his response, tell him that you will not accept one more word like that from him, nor comments that have anything to do with anything not specifically job-related. Your "attitude" is something that, for work purposes, he can shove up his butt. Make him name specifically what it is that you did wrong and then specifically how it affected the work project or work environment. If he can't do that, he's blowing smoke up your ass and venting, which you have every right not only to ignore but to file a complaint with the company about. A letter can get given to his bosses and to the personnel department outlining in clear terms that you will neither give any further respect to nor listen to at all a manager who is simply taking out pointless aggression on you.

Katie, I don't know how you got yourself in his eye as on the same level as his wife, where he can just spew at you. He must figure you think you have to take it, and I'm amazed to see that you think he's right. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT.

Always keep the upper hand as far as being calm and professional. It will show him up. It can hurt his chances for promotion. It can even get him fired. But you cannot protect yourself if you do not a damn thing to protect yourself. You have to take a risk and open your mouth.

By the way, some people are evil. Stand up and they will try to smash you down. Start documenting everything you do. Leave a clear paper trail, and write up memos of things you are assigned and distribute them to the people in charge, keeping a copy for yourself. This way you cannot be accused of not working on the right project, or doing the wrong things or doing them the wrong way, because your superiors themselves will be provably alerted to what you are doing. I can't tell you how many evil office tricksters have been thwarted by my doing exactly that. Once people see that you are documenting their discussions and orders, they will be painted into a corner when it comes to claiming untrue things.

And try they very likely shall. There's a sickness in some offices. It looks like someone is trying to infect you with it. You have to make it clear that you are completely off limits for that kind of thing. But closing your eyes and pretending it's not happening, or hoping that it will go away, is not going to work. You must take an active stand.

You can take it smoothly, calmly, and professionally. But you had better take it and then fight back, or better find another job. Because once you're on one guy's sh*t list, he will disparage you to everyone and after enough time, especially if he sets you up and sabotages an assignment or two for you, the sheer repetition alone will break people down and get you on *their* sh*t list too. This is what happens to people who hope things will just go away. If you do not establish that you are a force to be reckoned with, you will be in a tailspin and that downward spiral will see you out the door one way or the other, sooner or later. And you won't go out relatively whole and with an intact career, as you have it now. You'll go out broken, regarding your career, your emotions or both. If you have to go out at all, ask yourself, Do you want to go out whole, or broken? Because you do not prevent your destruction by not speaking up now. You guarantee it eventually.

So you have to decide whether you want to fight or quit. Because not fighting, and staying, is career and emotional suicide and far too stupid for anyone with an ounce of self-respect.

Remember, you are the good guy here. Don't surrender that as if it -- and you yourself -- had no value. Certainly nobody at work should be granted the power to put you in a death spiral.

This problem should have been chopped off at the knees the instant it started.

[katyseagull]

thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. Dom and Wookie, what do you think of Orlando's suggestion that I email him with a friendly tone? I'm not sure I will but I wanted to know your thoughts on this idea. Also, today we are speaking to each other just about business stuff. We have remained polite (or "civil" [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) I have a feeling that this is how it will be from now on which is fine with me. Unfortunately we both depend on each other to get our work done.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Katy,

I think one explanation is that that he's eying the company ladder. He sees you, since you and he work together and since you have 8 years on him, as his major competition. The manner in which he's demeaning you could be his way to try and leapfrog over you and on up the ranks and the pay scale. And if I'm right about this, it looks like he might be winning. You sound like you're bending over to his aggression. Runkmund is right here. Certainly go to your superiors if he threatens you with violence again. This could very well be a "him or you" situation, and while I'm sure you hate to lose a friend over something like this, I think he's already broken that friendship. There's no friendship there to lose at this point. I'd suggest standing up for yourself in front of him, especially if he's acting like this in front of other people, especially if those people are relevant to your career path. Don't just ask him if he's kidding and then roll over. Instead, compose yourself, and in a calm but firm voice, call him out for his rudeness and overstepping his bounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. There is no friendship here. He should fear talking to you that way.

The only thing I would do differently from Mr. Wookie's suggestion is to create the paper trail NOW. You don't always get second chances. If there is a threat he made to you, especially in public, the time to capitalize on it is while it still means something and isn't lost in the haze of the past and given deniability thereby.

ABCD. Always Be Creating Documentation.

It's what lawsuits live by. It is what careers are destroyed by. It is what chances for promotion are bolstered by.

If people know you are dealing with them on a professional level and keeping everything out in the open air, it's harder for nasty plans to ferment up a stink in silence. As a result, people won't even consider trying stuff on you anymore when they know they will be held accountable for it and it will go in their personnel record and jeopardize their careers. It's only the person who won't speak up that keeps getting shouted down.

[katyseagull]

i just saw your post, Blarg, after I replied to Dom and Wookie. I will try to address it later as I can't at the moment. I certainly wish I had chopped this off at the knees before it got started. I tend to be very quiet and amiable at work, trying to go along with the joke, trying not to be a complainer.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
i just saw your post, Blarg, after I replied to Dom and Wookie. I will try to address it later as I can't at the moment. I certainly wish I had chopped this off at the knees before it got started. I tend to be very quiet and amiable at work, trying to go along with the joke, trying not to be a complainer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that not only is insisting on being treated with ordinary professionalism not complaining, but that you shouldn't even have to ask.

This is the tone you should keep things in as much as possible with the personnel department, too. You are not a complainer -- that thought shouldn't come up in your head or anyone else's at all. You're a professional trying to get your job done, and threats of violence and personal attacks are interfering with that. Being punched in the face or humiliated in public simply weren't part of the job description, and you'd like it noted before things get out of hand. And then to move on positively from that, holding no grudges. Maybe the guy has problems, whatever. It's not your concern and you don't care and will continue to work with him. It's not even personal; it's just a fact of life that you're not particularly a fan of being face-punched and need this nipped in the bud. A reasonable HR person will understand and be grateful you are not yet making mention of any lawsuit.

Document it, Katy. Verbal exchanges are far more deniable.

It will serve as an example to this guy, and others, that you are not to be trifled with. You want to get that "to be trifled with" out of your corporate community's mindset instantly, because it will disqualify you from ever being much more than a low-level manager at the very most. Your "friend" is capping your salary and career prospects for you pretty definitively, and you need to take action on it. This is a matter that extends well beyond the two of you.