KK with redraw on flush board

Unstable James · #1 10-09-2007, 02:03 AM

This is my first orbit of the table. I do not have any reads and haven't played with any villains before. Comments on all play encouraged. Thank you.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) handconverter.com

Button ($6.06)
SB ($4.15)
BB ($9.39)
UTG ($6.08)
Hero ($9.95)
MP1 ($5.11)
MP2 ($9.38)
CO ($5.59)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.2, MP1 calls $0.20, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold.

Flop: ($0.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.85, MP1 folds, CO calls $0.85, SB folds.

Turn: ($2.55) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, CO raises to $4.54, Hero ??

LilDeano89 · #2 10-09-2007, 03:18 AM

The way you've played this hand, I'm probably folding here.

At this level, most players are quite passive post-flop.
For this reason, the aggressive push when the diamond turn arrived here, to me signals a made flush. Alternatively, if the villain here called the flop bet with a hand like A9/A5/A3 or K9, he would most likely just call this turn bet.

With a flush draw arriving on the flop, I would be trying to keep the pot small and under control, and getting to showdown cheaply. Then, if all draws miss, you can bet the hand for value. A 3/4 raise is probably more suitable here than a pot-raise, especially OOP with 3 players to act after you. At this level, players likely have no consideration for pot odds, play very passively, and are therefore probably calling away all their money on a flush draw here. Therefore, a smaller bet on the flop lets you keep control of the pot, and check/fold, not feeling committed to call, if the flush comes off on the turn or river.

Of course, its always possible our villain is making this play with air, but with no reads it's hard to call here.

toddxlogan · #3 10-09-2007, 03:25 AM

The above post is ridiculous and wrong. Sorry Dean, but you are just way off.

OP-

You played this hand well. I shove/call in this spot and expect to be good a hell of a lot of the time, waaay more than the 30 percent or whatever equity you need here. You'll see all kinds of hands here - a lot of Ad+1pr hands, sometimes air, sometimes a made flush, sometimes just a turned Q or whatever. I don't even think there is a question here.

Numfar · #4 10-09-2007, 04:28 AM

Agree with todd, call. You are almost getting 3:1 with a good chance that you are ahead and often 7-11 outs when you are behind.

LilDeano89 · #5 10-10-2007, 06:29 AM

I agree that you see all kinds of hand in these kinds of situations, and an aggressive player may well make this play with a variety of holdings. However, with no reads on opponents, I still find it hard to call here. I would much rather find a better spot to invest my money than calling and praying that I am ahead. Fair enough making this call if the villain has a history of making such plays. But with no such knowledge, the moves I'm trying to make here do not include the 'call and pray'.

scallop · #6 10-10-2007, 06:58 AM

Shove>Call>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>Fold

I mean ffs even if we are behind we have draws.

djh860 · #7 10-10-2007, 08:27 AM

The only advice I can give you is that at this level you have to be loud and clear so the donks will understand that you are saying 2x UTG is and invitation to the whole tabel to see the flop. 5x to 7X says I have a big hand. slightly overbetting the flop to $1 might also be better. at that levels draws will pay any price. I check call the turn to keep pot small.

ryang · #8 10-10-2007, 06:27 PM

lets vote dean off the island.

willyc · #9 10-10-2007, 07:09 PM

It looks like CO is all in, so we can call or fold. I'm not saying I would fold, but here are a few reasons why I think we're often behind here:

1. Players at these stakes love to play any suited cards, so you will see a lot more flushes.
2. Players at these stakes are always afraid of 3-flush boards and will often c/f even with top pair when one comes. Similarly they do not often represent a flush when they do not have one.
3. Players at these stakes are generally not capable of raising a flush/combo draw on the turn. A turn raise often means better than one pair.
4. Villain is representing a flush draw by cold calling the flop. I doubt he is floating with AQ or something, and I doubt he's raising A9 now instead of on the flop. It really looks like he's shoving a small flush.

I call here getting almost 3:1, but I think it is very marginal.