UGH! YA! but NO! reverse implied odds

[stokken]

Full Tilt Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, Q.
UTG calls, 1 fold</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8, J, T (5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB bets</font>, UTG raises</font>, CO folds, Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls. With a made hand there is no other option right, noone is folding here with a strong draw. The action ahead is favourable to me? charging the most.

Turn: (7 BB)J, speedmuck if heat right?

Stokken

[aceskay]

what kind of player is BB, what about UTG?

i would only fold if it goes BB bet, UTG raise in front of you on the turn.

Both BB and UTG could have lots of hands you still beat, like pair + draw, trips + draw, worse straight + draw.

If it goes BB bets, UTG calls, I probably raise and then fold to a 3-bet.

Just my .02, definitely an intersting hand though.

[NinaWilliams]

I think the flop play is fine. Not many cards hurt you, and if you wait to raise the turn, getting 3 bet sucks. As played, Id bet and call down a raise. Also, consider raising preflop.

[Gurravasa]

I would raise pf and outplay limpers postflop IP.

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
J, speedmuck if heat right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you fold the nuts? If it goes bet, raise to you I'd just call down, if you get c/r, call down, if it goes bet, raise, you call, 3-bet, cap, then curse and call and try to see a showdown on a safe river for the least amount of bets.

[Fluffy_Shark]

wait. you suggest to see a showdown with a straight on a 3way capped turn on a paired board with flush possibility? no way. when the turn is capped you're toast. do you think they both have AJ?

[Wolfram]

I can't see the suits in the OP. Is there 3 to a flush on the board?

If so, then I'd probably have to fold to a turn cap. But I'm still not folding if it's 2 bets to me.

And the way the games are today, they really don't need AJ on the turn to go overboard with raising. They could both have any Jx or one has Jx and the other has some sort of combodraw that he wants to gambool with, or 79 that he thinks is the nuts.

Sure, we're beat some % of the time, but I still think calling down a turn raise is probably +EV.

[Fluffy_Shark]

yeah, the flop is all spades. folding for 2 is close I guess and calling down seems ok as the flop wasnt capped.

[Wolfram]

Since the flop is all spades I would discount flopped sets some (they probably cap the flop while their equity is good).

But I guess then we need to worry about a slowplayed flush.