2/4 deep - CR river and fold to 3-bet

[wiggs73]

Villain is nickdevil7. I haven't been playing much 2/4 lately so I'm not sure who villain is. He's 25/15 and his aggro factor on each street is 3.7 / 3.5 / infinity over ~100 hands. We've tangled a little bit this session but nothing too major. I'm running maybe 20/15 at this table, fairly aggressive post flop.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($826.90)
BB ($150)
UTG ($1069.30)
MP ($786.15)
CO ($396)
Button ($92.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $12, Hero calls $10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($40) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $20</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $20.

Turn: ($80) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $65</font>, MP calls $65.

River: ($210) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $108</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $216</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $689.15</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $1115.15

I have $513 left behind on river and slightly cover villain.

[luckychewy]

he's bad, but u should still fold pf. turn donk is bad, and river c/r is horrible. i would b/f the riv or c/c. if i c/r it's with intention of getting ai. ur hand is as good as queen high here against an aggro lagtard like him, u see y?

[Chaoslord]

check/call looks good, what worse hands will call your river c/r?

[wiggs73]

I'll break down what I was thinking here...

preflop: suited 1 gapper vs. a small raise + a call. it's not standard, but i think it's ok.

flop: aggro player bets 1/2 pot after having been checked to. this could def. be a c-bet.

turn: well i now have additional outs vs. a hand as strong as an overpair and i should go ahead and end the hand vs. overcards. i think i can fold to a big raise here, i sort of hate check/calling again and I hate check/folding as well.

river: I think an aggro player could def. value bet a set here but probably would only call a bet. I'm probably not getting value from betting vs. an overpair at this point (?), so I figure I will try to get a little more value from something like a set (bc I think / hope a set would call a minraise) while still theoretically being able to fold vs. a flush.

Would it better to bet/fold the river? Check/call river? Check/raise/call river?

Haha, is anything I've said logical up to this point? Flame me please, thanks.

[luckychewy]

the only street i like is the flop. ur logic is flawed on the turn. u want to 'end the hand' but he's never folding a better hand and likely has 6 outs with overcards if u are ahead. i don't mean to be demeaning when i say this, but u should really fold pf and even more so given how u played this hand.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't mean to be demeaning when i say this

[/ QUOTE ]

No worries, I wouldn't have posted the hand if I wasn't ready to hear some criticism.

I honestly don't totally understand why my thinking is flawed on the turn though. I mean, is it really an awful thing to end the hand here even if I'm ahead... especially vs. an aggro player that could fire 2 barrels here?

I didn't bet the turn expecting a better hand to fold but I guess I was thinking ok... if he folds I'm ok with that since I don't have much of a hand. If he raises big I'm done. If he calls I have some ways to improve to what is probably the best hand.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
ur hand is as good as queen high here against an aggro lagtard like him, u see y?

[/ QUOTE ]


i hate op's line, but this makes no sense.

[luckychewy]

i was just trying to show that c/r riv fold to 3-bet is bad becuase he's effectively turning his hand into a bluff. not saying i don't think the guy is 3-bet shoving worse all that often if ever, but it's still pretty bad imo.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
i was just trying to show that c/r riv fold to 3-bet is bad becuase he's effectively turning his hand into a bluff. not saying i don't think the guy is 3-bet shoving worse all that often if ever, but it's still pretty bad imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

ohhh sorry... i see your point... kinda drunk... i still dont totally agree... just because youre folding to a shove doesn't mean you don't get called significantly more than you're raised... and when youre called your hand obv isnt q high... fwiw i pm'd wigsg saying i often dont like his river line...

[soah]

That is pretty bad, flop is fine and the rest not so fine. On the river he is checking behind a lot, the minraise makes it look like you have exactly what you really do have, turn bet also just lets him play perfect.