PS 2/4 river spot.

slamhound · #1 03-28-2007, 07:01 PM

SB is donkish.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

River: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero...

Completely read dependent? Default play? Responses from people who regularly play PS 2/4 would help.

Scorcho · #2 03-28-2007, 07:15 PM

Easy fold. You're sandwiched between two players, one of which liked the flop enough to call MP's continuation bet.

You need to be ahead of two hands here and I think you're only ahead of one. SB is likely dragging a weak-to-medium ace behind, a better queen, or KT that hit his free gutshot draw on the river.

jstill · #3 03-28-2007, 07:51 PM

yeah u can fold

Sherpa · #4 03-29-2007, 12:02 PM

smallish pot + PF raiser behind you = fold. You may have SB beat here a good percentage of the time, but I doubt you have both beat enough to make this a call.

aargh57 · #5 03-29-2007, 12:06 PM

I think I just call here. I don't see the sense in raising to try to knock out MP. He's not folding an Ace even against a raise so you're only getting him to fold Q9,QT,QK and hands you beat. When you raise you're still losing 2 to SB if he's got a hand and will even get re-raised sometimes and you'll be forced between a call that's probably -EV and folding to a donk for one bet on the river.

jstill · #6 03-29-2007, 02:45 PM

i question calling here for sure. Are u good 20% of the time u call here (assuming u always have MP beat) after the way the hands played out.

that would mean sb would have to have peeled this flop with a worse hand and bet into 2 players on this board after the turn cks thru (obviously button is weak but what did u call with). If hes got a Q hes got u beat, usually hes got a weakish ace cold calling in the sb and peeling this flop. Theres not even a missed fd and the J hits KT that mite peel.

Is 1/5th of the time he donks here an underpair he peeled on tihs board or a hand like JT that he know donks into 2 players on the river when he makes 3rd pair? intuition tells me no feel free to disagree tho

raising seems stupid were not worried about MP unless hes got KK and either way u need to beat sb or make him fold a better Q or A. doesnt seem worth the investment in this pot for what ud want to be accomplishing with that line.

aargh57 · #7 03-29-2007, 04:31 PM

No, you're right and I'm wrong (again). I think the size of the pot is the main issue here.

PokerSparky · #8 03-29-2007, 04:43 PM

Call.

sharpie · #9 03-29-2007, 07:53 PM

I would fold. I can't see him bluffing often enough with 3rd pair or worse into 2 opponents, one a PFRer.