3-betting without AAxx preflop

[Nologo]

I have a sort of general question, and I know it's impossible to get a precise answer, but what types of hands are generally good to be 3-betting preflop that don't contain AA? At small stakes there are a ton of players who only raise at all with AA, and 3-betting them with less is probably horrible, but against players who're raising a wider range, what hands tend to be best for this? I've been doing it more with things like medium rundown hands rather than other big pair hands like KKxx.

Here's an example of one hand, villian here is running at 96/48/4.

Full Tilt Poker - Pot Limit Omaha Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.00
BB: $61.40
UTG: $23.40
CO: $106.25
Hero (BTN): $28.80

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.85</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.90</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $2.05

Flop: ($6.15) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $4.50</font>, CO calls $4.50

Turn: ($15.15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $15.15</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $30.30</font>, Hero calls all-in for $6.25
Uncalled bet of $8.90 returned to CO

River: ($57.95) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $57.95 ($2.85 Rake)

Obviously, villians stats are pretty extreme, what about when a standard TAG player open-raises from the CO, what kind of hands should one be 3-betting on the button? Out of the blinds?

Sorry if this post is a little scattered, I hope it'll result in some interesting discussion.

[TimberBee]

Well, I can tell you what I think, but I'm not sure it is 100% correct or anything...

I think it is important to mix it up a lot, at least a little higher up in stakes. So I sometimes fold/call/raise hands like AKQJds, 5678ds, 7899ds, 9TJQds etc. OOP. I proably never fold them to a standard raise IP, mixing it up between calling and raising. Playing OOP usually sucks, so I try to not create big pots OOP vs good, agressive players.

[RoundTower]

3 bet this hand against almost anyone

[Elrazor]

i usually forget about 3 betting TAG players unless i have a premium starting hand (ds aces or quality rundown) however i think these hands from earlier today illustrates a good 3 betting spot - Villan (60/30/2)doubled up off me pretty early in the session and then proceeded to try and run over the table. 2 hands later i picked up the AKKx hand, and then about 10 hands after that the rundown. i think it illustrates the value of going after players who just want to take pots down by raising and c/betting alot, but dont actually want to go to war with someone who can play

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $215.15
Hero: $100
Button: $82.30
SB: $103
BB: $92.85

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($25.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $25.5</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($76.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $62.5</font>, UTG folds.
Uncalled bets: $62.5 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $76.5

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $100
UTG+1: $90.65
CO: $145.75
Hero: $125.60
SB: $126.20
BB: $85.55

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($25.5, 2 players)
CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $25.5</font>, CO folds.
Uncalled bets: $25.5 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $25.5

[Big Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $215.15
Hero: $100
Button: $82.30
SB: $103
BB: $92.85

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($25.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $25.5</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($76.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $62.5</font>, UTG folds.
Uncalled bets: $62.5 returned to Hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet of death

gl

bdd

[Elrazor]

in a vacume yes, against someone you have a read on, no. If this guy has a straight or a set he is repopping flop, i am discounting AAxx or he would have repopped pre (plus i have 1 ace) so that pretty much leaves lower PP's and flush draws, all of which i am well ahead of

his overall stats are skewd by me having some FR hands on him too. 6 handed hes running 85/45/2.38, positionally he actually raises more UTG than OTB

no way im 3 betting these hands to c/f the flop if i dont hit a wrap or top set

[jpg7n16]

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet this hand against almost anyone

[/ QUOTE ]

[Big Dave D]

I specifcally meant the turn, of course. If he is as bad as you say, you are not going to get him to pass anything other, than maybe, a pair. He is calling with all his draws. And of course, all the many hands that now beat you. If you check the turn, you avoid the bet of death and maybe pick up some money on the river when he makes a desperation bluff or you decide to value bet and he gets suspicious. By putting the money in on the turn you let you foe maximise his good hands as a parlay for making him pay to hit a 3-4 to 1 outer. Considering the dynmaic of a very loose foe on the river, I'm not sure this is the best parlay.

gl

bdd

[roggles]

Sometimes I 3-bet hands like 9TJA suited with the ace if I'm in LP. Is this stupidity?

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I 3-bet hands like 9TJA suited with the ace if I'm in LP. Is this stupidity?

[/ QUOTE ]

mandatory