Emotional Affairs

[DrewDevil]

my weary world experience is that many/most men and women both get super-turbo-jealous if their significant other displays any affection whatsoever, be it platonic, emotional, sexual, or abstract, for any member of the opposite sex, even if they trust that their SO would never cheat on them.

ex: katy wouldn't want her guy lunching with opposite sex. either katy fears it might lead to an affair, in which case she doesn't trust her guy, or she trusts her guy but feels jealous anyway for some unexplained reason.

i don't claim to understand this phenomenon, but i have observed it time and time again. the best course of action, if you want to avoid hurt feelings and annoying 3-hour-conversations, is not to have any contact with any member of the opposite sex other than super-boring-professional interaction with co-workers.

i don't think this is the way things should be, but it seems to be the way things are.

/grumbling

[Blarg]

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I know that who ever I choose to date is because she shows me the face I want to see the most. I can't see why her talking to other guys should offend me, because I know that there are things that she wants to see, but not from me. While hearing a guy talk immature and dirty may be funny to one girl, hearing it from her perfect mate isn't so appealing.

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Wow, your post was so interesting, especially the first line quoted, which is a kind of explosion of honesty. There's a lot about it that could be utterly damning, but there is interwoven a mature acknowledgment of one's own limitations and the compromises others, even perhaps those no more balanced or mature whatsoever, must make to accommodate it that is kind of breathtaking. I think there could easily be a fantastic thread on this idea itself, if people were honest and forthcoming. Which, on the other hand, it's highly unlikely anyone would be. I've tried to ask people for penetrating honesty in threads before, and those threads tend to be quickly buried and none too soon.

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I had a conversation with one of my exes about this. We both agreed that different people are going to have different relationships to each other. I can joke and have fun with certain people, and other's I cannot joke in these ways, but they are my friends. In my g.f., I see several qualities that I love and adore, but perhaps with her, there are things that I cannot say. Although I can reasonably expect her to have "all of me," I realistically cannot. Humans need to have various outlets. I could joke with one girl I know about being a [censored], but the other one would be deeply offended.


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Do you feel at all bad or threatened that some people can give her what you cannot, or will not? Have you ever felt in any way resentful that there are things others can provide her that you cannot?

I got a grin out of your saying what is reasonable is not necessarily realistic. True enough. We often have to deal with less than that.

[Blarg]

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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i have female friends who i am not attracted to, but i kind of agree. i wouldn't go so far as to say guys are just interested in sex, but i think there is often some level of mutual attraction in most male-female relationships.

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That this throws people so incredibly severely shows how much our society has regressed, or at least never matured. Whatever happened to happy, harmless flirting? Everything has to be sturm und drang these days. Being mutually attracted to each other doesn't mean that anything is going to happen or that either party wants it to. I would hate to think an attractive, personable woman would have to withdraw her best qualities and ugly herself up to be deemed worthy of friendship. Are only ugly people worth befriending? Is befriending everyone merely a prelude to rubbing uglies? I don't think so. We can be incredibly perverse and childish about beauty and attractiveness sometimes. I really don't agree with this view of people that paints us all as morons, and it seems to me that people don't live their lives like that anyway. It's a mental trope that has become popular, but it's as ridiculous in its way as turning on Fox to hear your news. It's more than just simplified; it's greatly ramped up and idiotized.

It isn't deadly or sinful or anything remotely negative to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Nor is it determinative of anything at all, besides being born. It shouldn't be used as an excuse to abandon one's principles. A casual appreciation of another's attractiveness shouldn't turn the world head over heels, or even be particularly remarkable. If one isn't attracted to multiple people one has no intention of pursuing, said "one" must be living entirely indoors or be full of sh*t. You move on, you can even be friends, you can even flirt. And then you go home to your partner and it counts for exactly zero, besides the little bit of amusement and affirmation it was.

[daveT]

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Do you feel at all bad or threatened that some people can give her what you cannot, or will not? Have you ever felt in any way resentful that there are things others can provide her that you cannot?



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Of coarse. I remember one of my old roommates and an exes relationship.

With him, she was more at ease, more talkative, more laughing. They were able to go out an have beers. Sexually, he was disgusted by her, but I always wondered what would happen if they got super drunk one day. He obviously wouldn't touch her because we were best friends, but it didn't make watching them two any easier on me. In the end, I shared the same pillow with her, and that was the most I could ask for.

Resentment, yes, because I wanted that part of her for me always, but because of our relationship, I couldn't see that part. There is a huge difference between friends and S.O.s. I was able to relate to his GF in ways that they could never relate, but that was because I wasn't involved in their ties, and I never had a desire to break that tie.

I, as a joke, walked into their bedroom and closed the door, "saying, hey baby." It was the only time he and I fought.

My roommate and I were able to be very honest with each other, and we talked openly to each other about how our relationships with each other's gf was different. We both envied how each one of our girls was able to be so at ease and just be out for the party, to really have fun.

Evolutionarily, we are wired this way. For whatever reason, we believe that our S.O. is the best person in the world, even if no one else could see it. To see that there is a world that could be better that is not ours, that we cannot supply, threatens us, and forces us to fight harder to keep our relationships together.

I am single now, and I think it is the above that makes me want to be alone, and this was what I was trying to address to Katy. These emotions are hard to deal with sometimes to be sure. What is more frightening is how these emotions cause others to do or say things that were not meant to be said or done. I wonder if most break ups are simply dealing with the thought that people are not able to supply every thing toward each other. That people think the other is miserable when he or she is not, and this short-coming is too hard to deal with: an admission that the S.O. is able to do better, when really, they can't.

[Blarg]

Interesting idea. I've had women question why I wanted to be with them, when I seemed brighter or more driven than they were, and it made them feel like they couldn't possibly keep up. Yet I had plenty of problems of my own, and limitations, and even fully acknowledging their limitations as real, were I to do so, wouldn't change the fact of my own shortcomings or make them less appropriate mates. The truth is that we all have to make compromises more or less odd or unexpected, and sometimes the burden is over-rated. Making compromises is the norm, and being relatively happy with them probably is too. Who can be a perfect match in every way to someone? Who has no areas that need work yet even at the same time no areas that particularly outshine one's partner?

But there are limits. My brother introduced me to a lady worth about $40 million the other week, a good friend he really hoped I could get with. She was beautiful. I wasn't up to it. And I think it was fairer and more realistic to the both of us that I wasn't.

[tarheeljks]

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guys aren't friends with girls, they are just trying to get sex.

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i have female friends who i am not attracted to, but i kind of agree. i wouldn't go so far as to say guys are just interested in sex, but i think there is often some level of mutual attraction in most male-female relationships.

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That this throws people so incredibly severely shows how much our society has regressed, or at least never matured. Whatever happened to happy, harmless flirting?

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i didn't mean to say that any male-female relationship has a mutual attraction and therefore must result in sex. my point was that it's something worth bearing in mind b/c by and large people are more likely to get close to members of the opposite sex that they find attractive in some way or another. we could argue all day why, i'm just pointing it out. this doesn't preclude anyone form establishing a relationship w/someone who isn't beautiful, but experience tells me that it's less likely(for better or for worse).

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If one isn't attracted to multiple people one has no intention of pursuing, said "one" must be living entirely indoors or be full of sh*t. You move on, you can even be friends, you can even flirt. And then you go home to your partner and it counts for exactly zero, besides the little bit of amusement and affirmation it was.

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i agree, it counts for as much as you allow it to. however, i also think casual attraction can blossom into something greater, very easily.

[Blarg]

It makes me sad to see you say that you are less likely to be friends with someone you aren't attracted to. That's not how I view friendship at all.

[BPA234]

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Do you guys think people can actually have an emotional affair? I was listening to a local radio station today and they were talking about this guy who wrote in and said his wife had confessed to an emotional affair with a colleague and he didn't know what to think about it. He wasn't even sure he was that upset about it.

I don't get the term. I've had crushes on guys before but I certainly wouldn't call it an emotional affair. I've had friendships with guys who I confided in but hell I wouldn't call that an emotional affair either. And why would the wife confess such a dumb thing anyway?!


And while we're at it, which of these actions would make you more upset,

- your significant other goes out for a private lunch with the same guy (girl) from work every week, or
- your significant other talks on the internet with some strange guy (or girl)?


Would either of these things bother you? Are we not allowed to form friendships and bonds with people of the opposite sex once we're in a relationship?

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From what I have read, an emotional affair is cheating without the sex. The emotional affair isn't just casual flirting or harmless friendship, it's everything you're supposed to have with your SO. But, do not.

I find the whole concept an annoying cliche. "He/she understands me and we have such deep and meaningful conversations...I think we're soul mates...bla bla bla."

I also think that the people having emotional affairs are disingenuous hypocrites. They're like all those evangelical Christian girls taking vows of abstinence who then, when polled, are statistically having higher rates of oral and anal sex than their peers.

Further, from my own perspective, I work in a small office with two women. One, who is fifteen years my senior, I like a lot and one is my age and I can't stand her. Although I have to confess that, physically, I would like to have sex with each of them, in neither case would I enter into any kind of emotional affair, because that would be extremely unfair to my current girlfriend.

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]
my weary world experience is that many/most men and women both get super-turbo-jealous if their significant other displays any affection whatsoever, be it platonic, emotional, sexual, or abstract, for any member of the opposite sex, even if they trust that their SO would never cheat on them.

ex: katy wouldn't want her guy lunching with opposite sex. either katy fears it might lead to an affair, in which case she doesn't trust her guy, or she trusts her guy but feels jealous anyway for some unexplained reason.

i don't claim to understand this phenomenon, but i have observed it time and time again. the best course of action, if you want to avoid hurt feelings and annoying 3-hour-conversations, is not to have any contact with any member of the opposite sex other than super-boring-professional interaction with co-workers.

i don't think this is the way things should be, but it seems to be the way things are.

/grumbling

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I don't have time right now to respond to all these great posts. Late for work again.

Drew I agree. People do get super jealous and I am right up there with the rest of them. If I saw my bf flirting with another girl or taking a girl out to lunch I would be really jealous and hurt.

However, on one level I'm able to realize that my guy is going to need to have other friendships and other women over his lifetime as I just can't satisfy all his needs. I mean I'm great but I'm not that great! I'd just really rather not witness it is all [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].
For me to think he will never be attracted to any one else is ridiculous.

Now I'm not saying my guy should go off and have a physical relationship with another girl. That would kill me. But close, non-physical bonds I think are to be expected over a lifetime, aren't they?

[tarheeljks]

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It makes me sad to see you say that you are less likely to be friends with someone you aren't attracted to. That's not how I view friendship at all.

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let me clarify my meaning.

less likely in so much as i think there is a selection bias as to how people make friends. i realize it sounds very shallow to say that, but i think its naive to believe otherwise. when we meet/interact with someone, no matter how briefly, we evaluate their physical characteristics on some level. it might be saying the person is pretty, or tall, or fat, or has nice hair, or dresses well but we are doing it whether we know it or not. this is even more pronounced when we meet members of the opposite sex and i think that the initial stages of a male female relationship are essentially the same whether it becomes romantic, platonic, or doesn't develop at all.

friendship isn't formed in a few minutes, or a brief meeting, but you obviously can't make a friend without meeting him/her first. many/most of the exchanges we have will be very brief, as such in an initial meeting/the short term a person's physical characteristics will tend to have a greater influence than personality/character/other intangibles over our impression of that person. while the latter characteristics are certainly more important, we just don't get that much information about them without a lot of repeated contact.

sometimes the contact happens naturally because of jobs, common interests, etc and other times the contact has to be sought. in the former case the first impression will matter less and less as time goes on, but in the latter case i don't think we can help but rely on them in determining which people interest us.

this is where i think the selection bias occurs. operating with a little information can be worse than operating with none, but that is what is occurring. now i'm not going to say, "we had a decent conversation, but i don't want to see that girl again b/c i didn't find her particularly attractive." however, i would be lying if i said (all things being equal) her being pretty wouldn't make me even more interested in seeing her again.


this doesn't mean that i wont take interest in anyone who literally does not catch my eye. i just think that physical characteristics play a strong role in the short term.


edit: i don't view friendship "that way" either in the sense that i'm evaluating prospective friends solely based on how attractive i think they are. i just think it is a factor early in the equation, whether or not it should be. call it a flaw in the mechanism.


i imagine this isn't going to be a very popular theory and maybe i'm way off, but that's my two cents.