(live $175) Time to bail out of a stop-n-go?

Slim Pickens · #1 01-31-2007, 08:18 PM

Mirage live $175 SNG, ten players start, payout 70%/30%

2000 starting chips, 4 players left

Hero = BB
The Button is a fairly poor player. He got his stack with a great run of cards paid off by even weaker players, plus a few suckouts. He has been raising my BB fairly frequently. I've been folding a lot more than normal to his raises due to a glut of indefensible BB hands. My handle on his raising range isn't great, but I'm sure it includes any pair, any ace, any two Broadway, and maybe some other stuff. I know he's capable of laying down a hand as good as top pair, but that was against someone else and I'm not sure how much credit he is going to give me postflop since I doubt he even remembers me playing my one hand.

The table has turned fairly aggressive. I am perceived as some sort of retarded maniac because I keep pushing for ~10 BB. People limp... I push... profit. There was a lot of "I'm gonna catch you, you little punk," going on every time I would push. I showed down one hand in a small pot very early on, then nothing else.

This hand is a stop-and-go from the start. I had yet to pull one of these and now seemed as good an opportunity as I was going to get. I'm still convinced it was the correct strategic decision for the hand but my tactics might have failed me.

blinds 150/300/25A
stacks are approximate
UTG (t4800)
Button (t8000)
SB (t4000)
Hero (t3200)

Dealt to Hero Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Preflop: UTG folds, Button raises to t900, SB folds, Hero calls t600.

Flop: (t2050) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero ???

Can you pull the trigger on that flop? Can I not pull the trigger on that flop?

ryanghall · #2 01-31-2007, 08:45 PM

With 10 2/3x BB I really don't think you have to go broke with Q8o against a raise. This is an absolutely awful spot for a stop and go IMO.

Ryan

skreemer7 · #3 02-01-2007, 01:27 AM

PF call makes me sick

bones · #4 02-01-2007, 01:31 AM

If you have people dying to look you up, this is probably a bad time for a stop n go.

Also, get on AIM. I have news that has exciting implications.

Slim Pickens · #5 02-01-2007, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PF call makes me sick

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a preflop call so much as a push with a head-fake in it. The idea of a stop-and-go is to call preflop with the intention of pushing pretty much any flop, since your opponent with two unpaired cards is going to miss about 2/3 of the time. What I'm asking is if I can bail out on the move given that both overcards flopped, I'm likely to get called by a lot, and I've got absolutely no draw. The only thing I'm getting him to fold there is (maybe) a low pocket pair. The rest of his raising range hit that flop.

curtains · #6 02-01-2007, 03:51 PM

I agree that the preflop call, regardless of what the plan is, is simply bad.

wiggs73 · #7 02-01-2007, 03:53 PM

Slim,

The thing about stop and go's is that really they should only be used when your hand has too much value to fold in the given situation. It's basically just a way of creating fold equity when you can't fold, but have no FE preflop.

But I don't think any of that applies here and I definitely don't think that Q8o has too much value to fold.

But anyway, I agree this is a pretty bad spot to follow through.

Slim Pickens · #8 02-01-2007, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the preflop call, regardless of what the plan is, is simply bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do I just have to fold this? I was getting pretty tired of folding my BB every single time this guy raised. He'd already fallen for the "suspiciously-small early position raise" trick twice on his BB, so I know I can make him fear a monster.

durron597 · #9 02-01-2007, 04:20 PM

you have tons of FE preflop against an agg button, especially live

Slim Pickens · #10 02-01-2007, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you have tons of FE preflop against an agg button, especially live

[/ QUOTE ]

I have some FE preflop, but I think I have a lot more on most flops. One thing that sucks about having to play with 8-12 BB is it's easy to get a reputation as a purely-preflop player, which I think I had at that point. I don't see him calling a flop push with missed unpaired cards or a scared underpair, but I feel he'll call preflop with most, if not all, of open-raising range.