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  #21  
Old 11-18-2007, 02:00 PM
Joey2Cards Joey2Cards is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

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The last poster even suggested that if you dont hit with AK you have nothing... well thats just plain wrong... you have a hand that is the best non-pair hand, and you are OFTEN likely ahead.



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This is precisely the thought process of someone who has trouble playing AK. Not saying that YOU do, but this is why people get carried away with their two pretty little cards.
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  #22  
Old 11-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Poker Clif Poker Clif is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

[ QUOTE ]
AK is definitely a good hand as long as you do not overvalue it after the flop. The problem often is that people get into a big pot with it and cannot let go even against poor odds.

My results with AK improved a lot after learning to control pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go back to basics, it should be pretty simple not to overvalue AK postflop.

What do you have really? If you don't hit the flop, you have two overcards. That's six outs, or 6.8:1 to hit on the turn, then if you miss, 6.7:1 to hit on the river.

And that's to get top pair, which probably is no good if there are obvious draws on the board.

If you think about it that way, it gets easier not to overvalue the hand.
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2007, 06:00 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

[ QUOTE ]

If you go back to basics, it should be pretty simple not to overvalue AK postflop.

What do you have really? If you don't hit the flop, you have two overcards. That's six outs,


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And if you are against one player, you are likely to have the best hand. How many outs is that?

The way you play a missed AK should be very different in limit and NL. In limit, unless you see significant action, you should probably see the river, and very often you should call a bet on the river. In NL, you can still try to win if the pot is small, but you generally don't want to play a large pot, even if you pick up one pair on the turn or river. This may mean you should fold on the flop.

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And that's to get top pair, which probably is no good if there are obvious draws on the board.


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No, it is probaly good if it hits, even if there was an obvious draw or two on the board. You still suffer from reverse implied odds in many situations, but don't overestimate how easy it is for someone to beat TPTK.

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If you think about it that way, it gets easier not to overvalue the hand.

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It also becomes more difficult to get full value out of what is still a decent hand. AK also often flops a gutshot and overcards, when the flop is QJx, QTx, JTx, or 3 to a wheel. AK is much stronger on flops that are likely to have missed your opponent, such as paired flops.

AK unimproved is significantly better than 22 unimproved. AK unimproved is a slight favorite against a random hand on most flops. 22 unimproved is an underdog against a random hand on most flops.
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2007, 03:50 AM
futuredoc85 futuredoc85 is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK is definitely a good hand as long as you do not overvalue it after the flop. The problem often is that people get into a big pot with it and cannot let go even against poor odds.

My results with AK improved a lot after learning to control pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go back to basics, it should be pretty simple not to overvalue AK postflop.

What do you have really? If you don't hit the flop, you have two overcards. That's six outs, or 6.8:1 to hit on the turn, then if you miss, 6.7:1 to hit on the river.

And that's to get top pair, which probably is no good if there are obvious draws on the board.

If you think about it that way, it gets easier not to overvalue the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

severely undervaluing it is just as bad
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2007, 04:44 AM
Chump Change Chump Change is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK is definitely a good hand as long as you do not overvalue it after the flop. The problem often is that people get into a big pot with it and cannot let go even against poor odds.

My results with AK improved a lot after learning to control pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go back to basics, it should be pretty simple not to overvalue AK postflop.

What do you have really? If you don't hit the flop, you have two overcards. That's six outs, or 6.8:1 to hit on the turn, then if you miss, 6.7:1 to hit on the river.

And that's to get top pair, which probably is no good if there are obvious draws on the board.

If you think about it that way, it gets easier not to overvalue the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

severely undervaluing it is just as bad

[/ QUOTE ]

If anything people overvalue small pocket pairs way too much.

'Hey look a 4 and another 4, a pair! I got 23o and 34o crushed!!'

Don't be afraid of AK just because it isn't a pair yet. (drawing hand lol)
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:00 AM
4W Cowboy 4W Cowboy is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

I didn't bother to read all the post but if you go by the list most serious poker players use and the one all others are compared to it is made by Sklansky and Malmuth and has AKs as the 5th best hand. Group 1: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AKs. However I recently read or heard that in holdem its a better stategy to wait until the flop to get to the $$ in because that's when the real odds shift happens, hence the 22 vs. AKs or os. (Obviously) If you flop an A or a K or 4 to a straight or flush the odds shift dramatically.
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  #27  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:04 AM
insyder19 insyder19 is offline
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Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

AK just plays better.

You can reraise with Ak from any position, you can shove AK because you know it's at least a coin flip unless you are up against AA or KK.

You cannot 3barrel 22 with 4 overcards there.

OF COURSE, if you push all in preflop, than 22 wins more. But we are talking about actually playing it postflop.

After about 300k hands in my pt. AK is the 4th best hand after AA, KK and QQ
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:09 AM
futuredoc85 futuredoc85 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 9,014
Default Re: Ranking of AK among best starting hands

[ QUOTE ]
AK just plays better.

You can reraise with Ak from any position, you can shove AK because you know it's at least a coin flip unless you are up against AA or KK.

You cannot 3barrel 22 with 4 overcards there.

OF COURSE, if you push all in preflop, than 22 wins more. But we are talking about actually playing it postflop.

After about 300k hands in my pt. AK is the 4th best hand after AA, KK and QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

no it doesnt


---
12,585,434,400 games 0.044 secs 286,032,600,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.334% 49.39% 00.95% 6215338932 119416020.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 49.666% 48.72% 00.95% 6131263428 119416020.00 { random }


---



---
33,561,158,400 games 0.086 secs 390,246,027,906 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.751% 64.91% 00.84% 21783519396 283348986.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 34.249% 33.40% 00.84% 11210941032 283348986.00 { random }


---



---
1,232,858,880 games 0.005 secs 246,571,776,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.793% 39.64% 10.15% 488757492 125124288.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 50.207% 40.06% 10.15% 493852812 125124288.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


---



---
636,977,088 games 0.005 secs 127,395,417,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.504% 35.21% 00.29% 224290476 1863336.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 64.496% 64.20% 00.29% 408959940 1863336.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


---


---
410,952,960 games 0.001 secs 410,952,960,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.643% 31.36% 00.29% 128865852 1173954.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 68.357% 68.07% 00.29% 279739200 1173954.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }


---



---
739,715,328 games 0.005 secs 147,943,065,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.540% 24.68% 15.86% 182578824 117305460.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 59.460% 43.60% 15.86% 322525584 117305460.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }


---
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