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#21
10-19-2007, 09:27 PM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
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In response to haakee's 3-bet suggestion on Turn: I'm not sure why we would want to fold out only the hands we beat (TPGKs) and risk getting 4-bet by hands we are behind. Very read dependent on the raiser I guess. [/ QUOTE ] (a) I doubt the opponent as described is going to fold any top pair here. (b) Do you want one of the guys in the middle to (correctly) call one more bet with a hand like 76, or force him to make a tough decision for 2 more bets? 
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#23
10-20-2007, 01:17 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
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I never raise TT or JJ preflop in multi-way pots. Sklansky elaborates on this HPFAP. [/ QUOTE ] Without looking at the book IIRC he was referring to UTG raises in semi-loose games where a raise will cause 3 people to see the flop on average. Totally different situation. You're only a little worse than 7:1 to flop a set so with 7 opponents a raise with any pair seems like about even money, no? Therefore a raise with a group 2 pair which still likes a flop of undercards is surely +EV.
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#24
10-20-2007, 01:45 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
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You're only a little worse than 7:1 to flop a set so with 7 opponents a raise with any pair seems like about even money, no? [/ QUOTE ] Except that every now and then you're going to flop an under-set if you raise with the small pairs. That's going to cost you and I think makes raising with them wrong.
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#25
10-20-2007, 02:40 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
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Except that every now and then you're going to flop an under-set if you raise with the small pairs. That's going to cost you and I think makes raising with them wrong. [/ QUOTE ] That's probably approximately negated by the straights you'll make with them or the times they'll win when you flop a straight draw and win the pot uncontested [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] or vs unimproved overcards.
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#26
10-20-2007, 02:49 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Except that every now and then you're going to flop an under-set if you raise with the small pairs. That's going to cost you and I think makes raising with them wrong. [/ QUOTE ] That's probably approximately negated by the straights you'll make with them or the times they'll win when you flop a straight draw and win the pot uncontested [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] or vs unimproved overcards. [/ QUOTE ] All of this makes the proposition of raising w/ the small pairs iffy at best. Not the worst and not the best, just so-so. I figure I'd rather not bother. I'm talking the tiny pairs here but since it's close overall I'd not argue it much.
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#27
10-20-2007, 03:05 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
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All of this makes the proposition of raising w/ the small pairs iffy at best. Not the worst and not the best, just so-so. I figure I'd rather not bother. I'm talking the tiny pairs here but since it's close overall I'd not argue it much. [/ QUOTE ] With small pairs I agree it's probably slightly -EV (although there are metagame aspects to consider), but with TT or JJ I raise here for value every time. I think it's clearly (although not necessarily hugely) profitable to do so.
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#28
10-20-2007, 03:15 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You're only a little worse than 7:1 to flop a set so with 7 opponents a raise with any pair seems like about even money, no? [/ QUOTE ] Except that every now and then you're going to flop an under-set if you raise with the small pairs. That's going to cost you and I think makes raising with them wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Realize mathematically that this will happen less than you will flop a set vs. top top and cooler his face drawing to 4 outs in a zillion dollar pot. HE RAISED PF HOW CAN 7s UP NOT BE GOOD (762) Sounds pretty tasty now, doesn't it? Also, by raising this PF out of the blind you don't have to worry about "turning your hand face up" when you cap KK Multiway. As played I CR the flop. If it's the kind of game where flops aren't bet just for the sake of it, then yeah bet.
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#29
10-20-2007, 08:38 AM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
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[ QUOTE ] go for a checkraise on the flop [/ QUOTE ] Good idea, but how many times have I seen the herd check thru? Too many times, that's how many times I've seen the herd check thru. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] 65% of the time, it works every time.
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#30
10-20-2007, 02:34 PM
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Re: Sometimes I hate 8-way action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] go for a checkraise on the flop [/ QUOTE ] Good idea, but how many times have I seen the herd check thru? Too many times, that's how many times I've seen the herd check thru. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] 65% of the time, it works every time. [/ QUOTE ] That made me laugh. I'm going to start using that line. Here's the results for anyone who's curious: Villain had turned a set of threes. I told you he was the type you wanted to play against. He might've actually 3-bet me so I def missed at least one bet. And the next day there he was in the 40 game! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
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