16: I thought this was a fairly standard push

[Velocity]

I'm pretty sure the nash equillibrium says you should shove this, but in actuality people suck and call way too wide so I probably fold. Or maybe raise in between because people won't pwn us too much at low stakes but most of the time fold.

[fanapathy]

Yes exactly, if everybody plays equilibrium this hand and a ton of other junk hands become instashoves.

Our equilibrium here doesn't however. If everybody plays perfect, like will be close in the highest SnGs, every shove can be based on "we know that he knows that he can't call profitably with those and those hands" and so on, so we can know when to push any two because we know they won't call without a hand that is a profitable call. That's a totally different world, and TBH playing higher stakes games relieves a lot of range-frustration since in literally every game on lowerstakes we must use different ranges. That's what the 234252-table players are specifically good at, applying the average range of the donkness of the level through experience and base the ICM decision on that.

[IFoldPktOnes]

I push this and would even be happy with slightly -EV according to ICM. The stacksizes after a successful steal here give you a significant advantage and will more than make up for this marginal push in my opinion.

[ QUOTE ]

I don't understand the topic name - "thought", icm cannot be really thought of felt usually, especially on bubble, just run it in sngpt and this would be pretty minus ev.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thinking about how to correctly apply/adapt ICM is the next step to improving after learning basic ICM. You have to do some thinking and put this hand in its context instead of analyzing it isolation.

[Q..]

Thinking on next level then this AQ call is pure gold.

[IFoldPktOnes]

I think the number of people defending/advocating AQo as a correct call is pretty sad actually.

[donkeykong2]

fold, it also spoils your image and you will get called lighter in other spots.

[CheeseMoney]

I love wrecking the bubble, but I never see the BB calling tight enough to make this shove +EV in a 16. I know that most winning regs at this level are calling with AQo here. As BB I'd also assign a pretty wide range against a reg like Loxxii, who I know would likely be pushing wide here in order to gain the chiplead and pwn the bubble. I don't think unknown BB is ever folding AK here, and rarely AQ. There isn't a shortstack in danger of busting out on the next hand or anything. However, I still think BB should be folding this hand and jamming at the next opportunity.

[Gary212121]

i fold...

you want to put pressure on the short stacks, not the CL. its a lot better to shove 97s into two shorties and let one of them wake up with a hand rather then the CL