Draw Poker: Should I Limp AK In The Small Blind

[Al Mirpuri]

Okay. It is five handed, two blinds, draw. There is a limper and all I have is AK in the small blind. Should I limp it?

What are the odds of improving? Could one of the math wizards help me out here?

I am currently folding in the above situation but I think that doing so may be a leak.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

[Big Limpin]

I would value AK above small pairs here. Especially if the limper is the type who will have TT/JJ/QQ hands when he limps. You'll need KK+ to win, but that probably will be strong enough to take it. You'll get there more often drawing to AK than a small pair.

The odds are probably about one-in-three to improve, akin to flopping a pair in HE.

A 2nd reason to get involved for a half-bet...if the limper is the type to limp alot of draws, then bluff when checked to. If thats the case, its +EV to put yourself in position to pick him off. Mostly upon improvement to AA/KK, and the odd ownage AK-high call [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Idolatrous]

Problem is, what are you going to do in a multi-way pot when you make AA or KK and one of the limpers bets? This will happen very often. It can cost you a lot if you can't pick the correct times to fold and the correct times to call.

[soulvamp]

Fold. Almost always.

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
I would value AK above small pairs here. Especially if the limper is the type who will have TT/JJ/QQ hands when he limps. You'll need KK+ to win, but that probably will be strong enough to take it. You'll get there more often drawing to AK than a small pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big Limpin,

this exact situation was extensively analysed by one of the more numerate posters some time ago and a pair of twos beats ace-king as ace-king make too many second best hands.

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. Almost always.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been my policy so far but I am questioning it.

[bigpooch]

If there are TWO or more limpers, you should seriously think
of folding, since you'll be out of position in a 4-way or
5-way pot and it is very unlikely that KK or AA will win.
I haven't carefully looked at 4-way, but I suspect folding
is better than completing, and even if completing is better
in some spots, the EV differential may be extremely small.

The problem with completing with AK multiway is that there
will likely be somebody betting postdraw, but the objective
of drawing to AK is simply to make either KK or AA and hope
you win in a checked showdown. Obviously this is less
likely with very aggressive opponents (or several of them)
and more likely with very passive opponents.

It's true that with AK (not suited), you could make at least
two pairs or better just over 6 1/2% of the time and can
make pay off (or bet out, depending on what you make), but
even some of these times you can't make a payoff when it's
multiway (somebody raises another player's bet, you are
facing a completed hand/bust but aren't in the payoff spot).

In a THREE-way pot, if the limper IS NOT a habitual trapper
or is known to limp in with some two pair hands, you have
to consider his range. If he is limping with a pair which
is JJ or less, then you should seriously consider completing
with AK from the small blind. The only case where you may
decide not to is when either the big blind will raise with
a wide range (perhaps TT or better) and/or the limper will
bet very often from the button, squeezing you out even if
you happen to make a pair of kings or aces.

A common scenario is when the button limps in. If you know
this player often limps in with hands such as 88, 99 or TT,
and is not aggressive postdraw (such as sometimes betting
unimproved, thus likely squeezing your KK out), completing
is better than folding. You are contributing 1/6th of the
pot, but it's more likely that everyone will check postdraw
when compared to multiway.

Anyone care to work out the EV differential 3-way? It's
clearly better to complete when the limper has JJ/TT/99 and
is trapping less than 10% of the time, but what the EV
difference is in big bets, THAT I am not sure of.

[Murakawa]

Btw against an untricky player isn't AKxyz a standard raise?

I'm also curious about limping in SB with 99-QQ when there's already a limper. Do people raise QQ here? Should I be limping with 99? (I do sometimes, just curious if it is +EV).

I'm curious about the math but also we shall not forget that post draw small blind is first to act which sucks! It's really a pot odds question (unless you make some very good hand, it's a check call check fold question vs. the bettors range), but it is a difficult situation to be out of position when somebody limps and bets post draw. What are ya'lls thoughts on that?

[BBQbowser]

Raise and draw 1 :P

[Murakawa]

Do that against me and you'll get crushed.