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  #151  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:58 AM
MuresanForMVP MuresanForMVP is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

I agree with you in principle, but dude, this is Texas we're talking about, and as long as those statutes are still on the books then he's gonna be free and clear.
  #152  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:08 AM
john voight john voight is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

WTF

This guy deserves life IMO. By a mile. Seemes like he clearly wen out of his way to pop these guys. Under diff circumstances his action could be standard, but here? WTF.
  #153  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:13 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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I agree with you in principle, but dude, this is Texas we're talking about, and as long as those statutes are still on the books then he's gonna be free and clear.

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I can see that there is some difficulty in determining whether or not this is legally murder, but ethically this is pretty clear cut.

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  #154  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:28 AM
ohead ohead is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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Howard Treesong -- I didn't want to quote your long post but your first post is by far the best in this thread. It seems the most rational and well thought of any that I read. And I would like to think our jury system would act similarly.

Some of the posts here actually scare me. "He shouldn't have gone out there", "possessions aren't worth life", "He's guilty as hell, open and shut case", etc. But what you forget is that HUMAN NATURE plays a huge role here.

I actually had a similar situation to this when I was a young girl. My mother and I saw two robbers (we are white and so were the robbers although I think that is somewhat irrelevant) leaving our neighbor's house in broad daylight. My mom called the police and then we both went on the front porch and started yelling at them, etc. Big difference is that we didn't have a weapon and were totally unprepared had they done anything to us. NOW I can see that was VERY STUPID but it was just a gut reaction and not rational or thought out at all.

To think that someone could go to prison for this is scary as hell to me. This man didn't wake up that morning with the intent to kill two black men. He was given a set of circumstances and he acted. Was it the wrong -- probably. Would you, I or anyone else do what he did --- probably not. That's just my point ---- each one of us can THINK we know what we would do but you don't know until it happens to you and each person would do it a little differently. Should he be robbed of his freedom for his actions that day ---- I don't think so.

Great topic though --- I enjoyed reading about it and the discussion.

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I just have to quote this and say Wow, are you for real? You are supposed to be able to control your human nature so you don't go around killing people and its an awful awful defense for anything like this.

This is like me saying that raping a good looking woman is just human nature! (extreme analogy)

Also the story about you and your mother as a child makes me drop my chin in how retarded it sounds, so you and your mother ran out and screamed at two thieves, accomplishing what?

And what the hell are you talking about in the last paragraph? He doesn't have to wake up in the morning for it to be premeditated, if he says out loud he's gonna go out and kill them over this then proceeds to do exactly this thats what I call premeditated.

Also NO material things aren't worth more then human lives, as someone has said before you can be rehabilitated pretty easily as a thief. If he doesn't go to prison for at least something I am gonna use this case as a defense for never ever going to Texas again and I will badmouth your gun toting ways.
  #155  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:08 AM
gimmetheloot gimmetheloot is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

Sorry for the people that were affected for nothing, ie the families of the dead dudes.

The man clearly said he was going to kill them when he says they are exiting the house.

I do think that this was excessive. From the tape you can hear that less than a minute after the man shoots the robbers the police arrive. I think the officer on the phone with the man was incredibly stupid and incompetent knowing that this man a) Had a loaded gun, B) Was pissed off and quite ready to use it, and C) Understood that he was legally within his rights to do so, and yet the officer does not tell him that the field officers are within 2-3 minutes of the scene.

I do not think the man needed to shoot them and merely pointing the gun at them from very near his front door would have sufficed to keep them in place until the police arrived.

I think this whole thing was handled pretty shittily on both sides, but humans err.

Despite my feelings on the handling of the situation, I HATE [censored] CRIMINALS and have no sympathy for those [censored]. DONT STEAL [censored] PEOPLE.

Edit:

After listening to the tape again, I feel that the guy is a bastard and is lying completely about the events of what happened outside.

He runs out and yells dont move or your dead, and immeditately fires a shot. I presume this one hit the first man and the second guy took off, and rightfully so. You then hear the second one close after, which (likely) misses, as a third shot needs to be fired as the man runs down the street.

He says he killed one guy in the other yard and the second as he ran down the street. I do not think the men charged him at all. I believe he knew before he stepped out of the house what was going to happen, and how he immediately tries to defend himself when he gets on the phone indicates that even more IMO.

Still, [censored] those criminals. I fully believe that if you intend to come and negatively effect the wellbieng of me and mine (family, friends, neighbors, what have you) that most retaliationary(is this a word?) action is justified. I think this case was excessive, but justified.
  #156  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:13 AM
gimmetheloot gimmetheloot is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[ QUOTE ]
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Valuing consumer electronics over people's lives is exactly the sort of thing we need to be locking people up for.

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I disagree here.

I hate to be racist or value one person over another, but these 2 burglars arent exactly model citizens. They are a leech on society, and they are certainly going to rob someone else. Who knows if they are armed, and if they will harm someone else while robbing them?

I really can't blame someone for killing 2 thieves.

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What if the neighbor that he barely knew had wronged them criminally first? What if the guy actually knew these two guys, and was giving them his old vcr? What if these guys were delivery guys from circuit city who were coming to pick up a defective item?

There are reasons why we have laws against people taking the law into their own hands.

Also, if your 12 year old son stole a Playboy from a convenience store, and some other customer saw him and shot him, would you feel similarly that the death penatly was appropriate?

Just let the law sort it out, and down with [censored] idiots sentencing people to death for B&E on someone else's house.

James

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Im *pretty* sure youre just being facetious, but either way, this is the dumbest [censored] ive read in years.
  #157  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:33 AM
daxtrader daxtrader is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

He took the law into his own hands even after a 911 dispatcher told him to stay in the house. Aren't you supposed to LISTEN to what a cop is telling you to do? HE DIDN'T LISTEN. After the shooting the dispatcher tells him he has undercover cops in the area and to put his gun down before he shoots someone. Precisely why you can't have citizens taking the law into their own hands.

What makes him skilled enough to go out and start shooting? He could've injured others, fired into another house. Then what? Would his actions still be justified?
Listen to the recording. He clearly feels he has a "moral" obligation to kill them. He's not trained to make this kind of judgment call and no one should be allowed to unless you are the one being attacked. And this was not in self defense. Chances are even the police would not have shot those thieves.
  #158  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:55 AM
gimmetheloot gimmetheloot is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[ QUOTE ]
He took the law into his own hands even after a 911 dispatcher told him to stay in the house. Aren't you supposed to LISTEN to what a cop is telling you to do? HE DIDN'T LISTEN. After the shooting the dispatcher tells him he has undercover cops in the area and to put his gun down before he shoots someone. Precisely why you can't have citizens taking the law into their own hands.

What makes him skilled enough to go out and start shooting? He could've injured others, fired into another house. Then what? Would his actions still be justified?
Listen to the recording. He clearly feels he has a "moral" obligation to kill them. He's not trained to make this kind of judgment call and no one should be allowed to unless you are the one being attacked. And this was not in self defense. Chances are even the police would not have shot those thieves.

[/ QUOTE ]

We should always listen to our government. WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM GOD DAMNIT.

Also, how and where do you go about being "trained" to make a [censored] moral decision. ITS [censored] MORALS NOT BUILDING A RAFT.
  #159  
Old 11-29-2007, 08:29 AM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

A real american hero... Bernhard Goetz.
  #160  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:57 AM
dibbs dibbs is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[ QUOTE ]
I was trying to get at that these guys could very likely harm other people when robbing another house. Maybe they think the house is empty, go inside, and are startled by a resident, and they end up shooting them.

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YEA. MAYBE. BETTER KILL EM. JUST IN CASE.

I listened to the whole call.

Sounds like the guy basically didn't handle a stressful situation well, snapped, and reacted very poorly and irrationally with deadly consequences, it happens.

I'm pretty shocked at police response time, I suppose things are different in semi rural areas though.

Were there any witnesses to the shooting? Basically it's like he runs out "MOVE YOU'RE DEAD! BANG." Which might be, as the lawyer says, cuz the guys lunged at him, or just cuz hes totally agitated and trigger happy. How the body fell and witnesses hopefully will clear it up.

Time will tell I spose.

I don't see this as a great case for anti gun laws, if a guy breaks into my house with a gun I would like the power and chance to protect my life, I would like to think I have that right.

I don't think people have the right however, to run outside shotgun blazing at leaving criminals because your neighbor had some jewelry and a DVD player stolen.

Phenomenal trolling btw Boris.
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