Mark McGuire - If we forget the drugs, is he HOF worthy based on #s

Hi Folks

I have been hearing and reading conflicting opinions on this, and I'd really like to hear from some posters in a thread that, for the purpose of this discusion, assumes that Mark McGuire never did any drugs. Let's pretend his image is the same as your average player.

I have seen the following:

1) statistical based arguments that say his numbers as a 1st baseman are not HOF worthy.
2) statitical based arguments that say his numbers as a 1st basemen are HOF worthy.
3) emotional agruements that he is deserving.
4) emotional arguements that he is not deserving.

I don't care much about the emotional debates, but could posters share some of their comparitive statistical analysis and conclusions on whether McGuire's career (at face value) is HOF worthy as a 1st baseman?

[New001]

There was a fairly recent thread (a month ago?) on McGwire, and there are some good arguments for him in there.

[THEOSU]

mark mcguire as deserving as cal ripkin, if not more so.

[blackjack777]

First off, spell Ripken correctly.

Secondly, this is a dumb question. Of course he is worthy if we threw out the illegal substances.

[Needle77]

Didn't he only take Creatine and Andro? I mean Andro is a pretty hardcore substance, but it is legal. I just assumed people figured he was doing more, but Andro can do quite a bit itself. I'd say it's like 75% of steroids...as least from what I've seen personally, so I could be wrong.

Oh and hes in, easy.

[jesusarenque]

With or without steroids/drugs/performance-enhancing substances, McGwire should be in the HOF.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
mark mcguire as deserving as cal ripkin, if not more so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cal Ripken - 2nd greatest shortstop ever
Mark McGwire - top 15 1B?

Edit: McGwire is in, but it's a lot closer than most people think.

[ QUOTE ]
First off, spell Ripken correctly.

Secondly, this is a dumb question. Of course he is worthy if we threw out the illegal substances.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blackjack, with due respect, J.P McIntyre of the Hardball Times provides numerous statistal measures in the following article, and says that McGwire would be a "marginal HOF choice."

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...me-worthiness/

You say "of course he is worthy," provide no back-up, and claim I am asking a dumb question. How helpful is that?

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
With or without steroids/drugs/performance-enhancing substances, McGwire should be in the HOF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling that the same people who agree with you are the same people who think Bonds is guilty and should be crucified.

[SuperUberBob]

Well, the question is what would his numbers be if he wasn't on the steroids?

That's an unanswerable question though.