playing against ratholers

[catcher193]

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Catcher - I don't see what can be considered good about opening to $80 and calling his raise to $140 with Q5s vs a $370 stack.

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obviously its bad vs a competant shortstacker, but this guy was a spewy gambler who did dumb crap like minreraise his entirerange, his stats were outragious.
Instead of jamming, I elected to see a flop and continue if I flop any sort of equity at all, obv a flushdraw is good enough.

I posted it as a joke, against a fish, who happened to have a shortstack, (which somehow wasn't obvious, even though he showed down 97o)

[Morrek]

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Catcher - I don't see what can be considered good about opening to $80 and calling his raise to $140 with Q5s vs a $370 stack.

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obviously its bad vs a competant shortstacker, but this guy was a spewy gambler who did dumb crap like minreraise his entirerange, his stats were outragious.
Instead of jamming, I elected to see a flop and continue if I flop any sort of equity at all, obv a flushdraw is good enough.

I posted it as a joke, against a fish, who happened to have a shortstack, (which somehow wasn't obvious, even though he showed down 97o)

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i thought it was pretty obvious he was not the kind of shortstack discussed here.

[Jay Riall]

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Catcher - I don't see what can be considered good about opening to $80 and calling his raise to $140 with Q5s vs a $370 stack.

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because folding is the most exploitable thing ever?

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It's thinking like this that makes shortstacking soo damn proftable imo. I take it you don't fold to a shove then if he decides to do that?

[IHateCats]

Most of the poker world isn't that tech savvy but the ammount of hand history data availible to even casual dataminers with minimal software expense and no expertise is immense, literally in the millions of hands per month for a single machine with multiple virtual desktops and a dsl connection. PT/PaHUD can't effectively make use of that kind of data on normal desktop harware but from the looks of it Holdem Manager will be a quantum leap over PT/PAHUD, in terms of ease of access to relevant data, relevenence to NL and in outright speed as well. The sites will have to do something eventually because there is definite danger to the poker playing field at large in this kind of data, it's only a matter of time before someone motivated enough really exploits it. If the sites leave things as they are stratification of the playing fields will happen very quickly in the next 12 months, I know 2 people personally who are mucking around with SQL Server based data warehousing of poker hh's to a level of granularity that could make PT or even HM look like a cheat sheet.

Making observed HH's as difficult to obtain as possible & deepening the stacks will help, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually there is a push back to 9 player tables simply because it's substantially more difficult for pokerAI as it currently exists than shorthanded or even 6 max.

[jkkkk]

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lapoker summed up my thoughts on this issue perfectly.

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ditto

[Trix]

its so [censored] easy playing against those guys, yet people make a ton of mistakes that they dont have to make. you obviosuky have to make some if you want to make a move that is more +eev agaionst a full stakc than - against a short, but its not really that bad most of the time anwyay.

[grindplz]

Just recently I tried short stacking 5/10 on stars during like a 5 day span. I ended up making like 15k in 6k hands. Since im now done with it and merely did it in order to make some quick $ / figure out calling ranges ill say a few things I picked up while doing it.

1. Just pokerstove everything. Like literally once you have a few thousand hands on shortstackers and learn some tendencies it is so easy to figure out their range. Shortstackers say they can adjust but from what i've seen most tend not to.

2. Smaller raises and smaller cbets. If you're raising from the button in a 5/10 game vs shorties raise it up to 25. A lot of times they'll call out of the bb with marginal hands and play pretty terribly post flop Also cbetting smaller is pretty key as well.

3. Position position position. Check out position stats on shorties on PT. You'll see a lot are literally like 10/10 utg-mp but then suddenly become 21/20 from the button / CO. Restealing vs shorties is extremely profitable and you should obv be 3-betting shorties a lot lighter then ur calling 3-bets especially if their raise comes from LP.

In the end every time a short stack 3-bet shoves its an overbet. Shorties can adjust all they want but when they're shoving 175 more into 65 over and over again (at 5/10) its obviously really exploitable and easy to play against.

[Thremp]

Haha. This thread is funny. Almost everyone is an idiot barring the shorties (except FatalError) and Vanveen.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Haha. This thread is funny. Almost everyone is an idiot barring the shorties (except FatalError) and Vanveen.

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agreed
the shorties are pwning this thread hard

LOL @ most of the recommendations


CHOO CHOO

[Jurrr]

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Bld had a good post in NVG a while ago, and he laid out 3 things to do which I always keep in my mind against these guys.

[/ QUOTE ]What did he say?

Also, what is the link to that HSNL post?