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#1
10-23-2007, 03:53 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
JaredL,
-Most big league pitchers were once hitters at one point in their career. What makes them "fail" is that they lose the skill movements necessary to get to the ball b/c they aren't doing it everyday anymore--they are throwing everyday instead. NL pitchers hardly hit, they mostly bunt...the difference between AL pitchers and NL pitchers is only that NL pitchers are seeing live pitching more often, that is all. [ QUOTE ] The main question I have is how good is the average NL pitcher at hitting compared with an average guy that say plays rec baseball or softball? What about the best high school hitters? Average college hitter? Would they bat 9th in most single A minor-league teams or perhaps a bit higher? [/ QUOTE ] First, they aren't even close to a Class A minor league hitter. Crazy to even think so. Think of it this way, the middle order HS hitters are generally who play college ball, the middle order college players are generally who is drafted. So in the minor leagues everyone can hit--from there these things have to happen 1) no injuries 2) sharpen skills some 3) money invested in the player and 4) luck. For the rest of the comparisons it is hard b/c I guess it is all how you define "average college hitter." Since a ton of big league pitchers were excellent athletes/hitters at some point and they are seeing big league pitching each outing then I am no doubt going w/ the big league pitchers over "average" college hitters--not good or great college hitters and absolutely over HS and rec ball guys. Also, most people don't realize how hard it is to hit an 80 mph fastball. Now turn that up to 95, change the angle to downward (big league pitchers throw at a tough downward angle), add exceptional off speed pitches and the avg Joe doesn't TOUCH a ball in 1000 swings so you can throw luck out of the equation. 
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#2
10-23-2007, 04:02 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
[ QUOTE ]
CardSharp I think you're mistaken. Most pitchers at the collegiate level that have a real opportunity to go pro would NOT be playing any other position and would rarely hit unless they were freakishly good. The risk for injury is too high. [/ QUOTE ] This is wrong. And second of all college coaches couldn't careless about "risk of injury" whatever that means. And lastly, there isn't a higher risk of injury--the reason it isn't done "always" is b/c to be able to hit or pitch each individual skill takes hours and hours of practice to perfect every day and it is actually really hard to be a two-way player b/c usually one skill suffers and sometimes both suffer a little. Coaches would rather a player concentrate wholly on one skill. With that said, most pitchers in the big leagues are extremely athletic w/ exceptional hand eye coordination etc. Even guys that don't look like it will surprise you, I have seen some big league pitchers on a basketball court (weren't supposed to be) that looked like they could have played in the frickin' D league and they were overweight and old...they could also hit. Pitching is an athletic movement is what you need to remember, you also need to understand that pitching and hitting correlate w/ each other mechanically so it is also believable that one can do both well b/c all the key positions a hitter HAS to get in to hit a pitcher HAS to get in to pitch.
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#3
10-23-2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
Most major league pitchers are very good hitters compared to the average "athletic" person their age. MLB pitchers are amazing at pitching and batting .150 against them is quite an accomplishment, in the grand scheme of things.
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#5
10-23-2007, 04:42 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] CardSharp I think you're mistaken. Most pitchers at the collegiate level that have a real opportunity to go pro would NOT be playing any other position and would rarely hit unless they were freakishly good. The risk for injury is too high. [/ QUOTE ] This is wrong. And second of all college coaches couldn't careless about "risk of injury" whatever that means. And lastly, there isn't a higher risk of injury--the reason it isn't done "always" is b/c to be able to hit or pitch each individual skill takes hours and hours of practice to perfect every day and it is actually really hard to be a two-way player b/c usually one skill suffers and sometimes both suffer a little. Coaches would rather a player concentrate wholly on one skill. With that said, most pitchers in the big leagues are extremely athletic w/ exceptional hand eye coordination etc. Even guys that don't look like it will surprise you, I have seen some big league pitchers on a basketball court (weren't supposed to be) that looked like they could have played in the frickin' D league and they were overweight and old...they could also hit. Pitching is an athletic movement is what you need to remember, you also need to understand that pitching and hitting correlate w/ each other mechanically so it is also believable that one can do both well b/c all the key positions a hitter HAS to get in to hit a pitcher HAS to get in to pitch. [/ QUOTE ] darko, did you ever play college baseball? College coaches DO worry about injuring a stud pitcher. It's ridiculous that you're even arguing that they don't. A pitcher playing the field puts more strain on the arm, and there is ALWAYS a chance for a fluke injury. Given your second statement I think its highly unlikely that you ever played on a baseball field past the H.S. level. Pitchers go in a cycle based on when they are expected to pitch against live hitting, whether that be in an actual game or simply a simulated game with teammates. Sure on the 1 day out of 5 you are pitching in a game you will not have a chance to hone your skills at the plate. The other 4 days there is PLENTY of time to work on your hitting if one was so inclined. I'll go in to more detail if you really don't believe me, but anybody who has played at that level should realize that there is PLENTY of time for a pitcher to work on his hitting. I agree with the majority of your second paragraph. Most pitchers are very good athletes and have great muscle memory.
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#6
10-23-2007, 04:55 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] CardSharp I think you're mistaken. Most pitchers at the collegiate level that have a real opportunity to go pro would NOT be playing any other position and would rarely hit unless they were freakishly good. The risk for injury is too high. [/ QUOTE ] This is wrong. And second of all college coaches couldn't careless about "risk of injury" whatever that means. And lastly, there isn't a higher risk of injury--the reason it isn't done "always" is b/c to be able to hit or pitch each individual skill takes hours and hours of practice to perfect every day and it is actually really hard to be a two-way player b/c usually one skill suffers and sometimes both suffer a little. Coaches would rather a player concentrate wholly on one skill. With that said, most pitchers in the big leagues are extremely athletic w/ exceptional hand eye coordination etc. Even guys that don't look like it will surprise you, I have seen some big league pitchers on a basketball court (weren't supposed to be) that looked like they could have played in the frickin' D league and they were overweight and old...they could also hit. Pitching is an athletic movement is what you need to remember, you also need to understand that pitching and hitting correlate w/ each other mechanically so it is also believable that one can do both well b/c all the key positions a hitter HAS to get in to hit a pitcher HAS to get in to pitch. [/ QUOTE ] darko, did you ever play college baseball? College coaches DO worry about injuring a stud pitcher. It's ridiculous that you're even arguing that they don't. A pitcher playing the field puts more strain on the arm, and there is ALWAYS a chance for a fluke injury. Given your second statement I think its highly unlikely that you ever played on a baseball field past the H.S. level. Pitchers go in a cycle based on when they are expected to pitch against live hitting, whether that be in an actual game or simply a simulated game with teammates. Sure on the 1 day out of 5 you are pitching in a game you will not have a chance to hone your skills at the plate. The other 4 days there is PLENTY of time to work on your hitting if one was so inclined. I'll go in to more detail if you really don't believe me, but anybody who has played at that level should realize that there is PLENTY of time for a pitcher to work on his hitting. I agree with the majority of your second paragraph. Most pitchers are very good athletes and have great muscle memory. [/ QUOTE ] I can't wait for the reply to this!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#7
10-23-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
[ QUOTE ]
Given your second statement I think its highly unlikely that you ever played on a baseball field past the H.S. level. [/ QUOTE ] Ha ha. This is funny. Also...LOL at the idea that pitchers are going to spend so much time during their 4 off-days between starts working on their hitting. WTF?
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#9
10-24-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think the average guy would be lucky to get a few hits in 1000 at bats. [/ QUOTE ] You underestimate just how much luck there is on balls in play. Obviously you're also partially claiming the Average Joe (c) won't get many balls in play, but I could swing blindfolded for a thousand times and get a couple of hits... [/ QUOTE ] ur ridiculous... BLINDFOLDED and UR NOT A PRO PLAYER
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#10
10-23-2007, 04:30 PM
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Re: How good are pitchers compared to the average Joe
Actually, most major league pitchers, AL or NL, are much better hitters than the average Joe. They were all superior athletes who may well have been the best hitter in the history of their town, but since they don't focus on hitting any more, and haven't practiced it since High School(the only place the pitcher hits above the HS level is the NL), they just appear weak. Every NL farm team uses the DH.
Its not that these guys don't have the ability, it's just not honed to the MLB level. And as for AL pitchers in the NL park in the WS. Josh Beckett can flat out hit.
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