Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[jeffnc]

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If you coun't retarded, 2nd. If you coun't stupid, 3rd. If you coun't like the rest of us, 4th.

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Coun't is a contraction of what, exactly?

--klez

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NICE, way to pick up on that typo. Damn. Consider a job as a writer, or proof reader for a major paper. I don't know about the rest of the forum, but you've managed to impress me.

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It was so blatantly obvious, I assumed he was making fun in some way of the person he was responding to.

[Lottery Larry]

Great rant, and perfect avatar for it

[jeffnc]

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how could that KK ever be anything but the 4th nuts with the information we have? depending on how you count??

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The OP did not say there was an illegal deck in play. But I think without information to the contrary, we have to assume it is a legal deck. In other words, there would only be 1 card that had 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] imprinted on it.

[Lottery Larry]

Home Poker- where the quality is.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
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| GET OUT OF A |
| K.I.T.N. FREE |
| CARD 2007 |
----------------------- </pre><hr />

[jeffnc]

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The nuts are defined by the board. That's it.

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Wrong. If the board is AAK, and we have AK, we know we have the nuts. According to you, we might be behind here.

Consider. We know for a fact that our opponent will only go all in if he has the nuts. Our opponent goes all in. According to you we should fold this hand because we don't have the nuts and he does. That's absurd and your opinion makes absolutely no sense in the real world.

edit: alright, this post proved nothing because you don't consider "unbeatable hand" to necessarily be the nuts. Point taken, but we still disagree :-)

[jeffnc]

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Think about it. TV hand. We "see" four different players fold an ace preflop. On the end the board is K Q J T 2 (rainbow). One player is holding a 9 and bets. Should the announcer proclaim "Player X is betting the nuts."? Or better yet, a player with air bets and the player holding the 9 folds. Should the announcer declare "what a donkey, player X just folded the nuts."?

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Don't be ridiculous.

[Lottery Larry]

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And by the way, now that's two dealers of mine you've kicked in the nuts who were female.


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What, it doesn't hurt for them??

Please read ACJ's "KITN- Why it should be used in Everyday Life" manual, page 37, Section B-3:

"Do not misinterpret the last letter of KITN literally, when planning for the application of this important poker management tool"

[Lottery Larry]

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In the example of a 9 9 8 8 4 board any player holding a 98 would have an unbeatable hand. To say he has the "nuts" however is just false. The nuts on that hand of poker is 99.
... The nuts are defined by the board, NOT by hole cards.

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Wrong. While I agree that it may be overly liberal for someone to use unknown (to others) cards to define the nuts, your example is NOT acceptable.

If there is a 99883 board (to remove the SF) and you have in your hand 98, you have the nuts in any game without wild cards or multiple decks.

To argue the semantics in that scenario is stupid. By common acceptance, "the nuts" means a hand that can't be beaten, given the circumstances of that hand... it does not mean "possible hand combinations that can't occur."




And I'm someone who has argued that my using "I have the nut flush" holding 32s when there was NOT a SF or FH possible is legitimate, when I knew 100% that I wasn't going to be beaten by my opponents.

Not common, but acceptable enough under the circumstances at the time.

So, you won't want to talk to me :P

[jeffnc]

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Sorry, but I have a weird passion for this issue.

NO! (and I rarely use exclaimation points).

"Unbeatable hand" is not synonymous with "nuts".

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A web search will show mostly evidence contrary to that. Regardless of where you got your information, common usage dictates it has no single precise meaning. And common usage does define words (see how a dictionary changes over the years for proof of this.)

[Lottery Larry]

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how could that KK ever be anything but the 4th nuts with the information we have? depending on how you count?? .

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ATd and T9d aren't possible on the same hand. I'd generally say "4th nut" myself, but since only one SF is possible here and it's the nuts, saying the top FH is 3rd nut isn't something to get too worked up about.