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#11
11-07-2007, 07:51 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
Are you the one that updated the AJ poker.wikia entry with that exact same information? It would be nice to get multiple views on this if this is true. I'm probably going to head to AJ's sometime this week or next week to check out the game for myself. Never been there before. [/ QUOTE ] I am the very same. For the record, I discussed it at length on this board and researched the situation on a great many newsgroups before I made my opinion public on the wiki. Re-reading my edit on the wiki, I think its poorly phrased and reflects my frustration at the time more than an objective commentary should. I plan on revising my entry there. 
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#12
11-07-2007, 08:13 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
The wiki link above was great, ty to the poster too! [/ QUOTE ] Merely passing on knowledge of a helpful resource that was made available to me, but yw. Now if only I had some money to go play at the various cardrooms...I hate being broke [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Any players near palo alto need a slave [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ?
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#13
11-07-2007, 08:30 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
It's a pretty truthful statement. And to be clear, this is "soft" collusion: The regulars in the 15/30 game do not collude explicitly, which would be exploitable, but when they are in the pot against one another, they will typically check it down or play soft, skipping obvious value bets and raises. [/ QUOTE ] Do you mean they play the way they normally would until the pot is HU then check it down? Does this bother anyone else (it doesn't bother me)? The info from the link seemed to imply that they would force you out of a pot, discuss hands in other languages while the hand was in progress, etc. I recently moved to the area and am planning to play some live poker, thanks for any info.
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#14
11-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
The way I interpreted/imagined it is that the regs will play super aggro when a non-reg is in a hand, then once he's faced with cold-calling a 3bet and is forced to fold, they'll check it down.
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#15
11-07-2007, 08:59 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean they play the way they normally would until the pot is HU then check it down? [/ QUOTE ] It happens mostly when they put you on like, either a weak draw or top pair with a so-so kicker, stuff like that. If someone gets the feeling they can price you out of a pot by going insane over scare cards, they will instigate a raise war with other regs, then check down after you fold. Its not uncommon for someone to fold the river sheepishly in EP instead of even checking after 4 betting the turn with an "aw shucks i missed, guess you get this pot" look on his face. Its hard to describe honestly and as mentioned, its usually at the main game, I believe you will understand what we are talking about when you encounter it. [ QUOTE ] Does this bother anyone else (it doesn't bother me)? The info from the link seemed to imply that they would force you out of a pot, discuss hands in other languages while the hand was in progress, etc. [/ QUOTE ] I think the best way to sum it up is that its simply not every man for himself at AJs main 15/30 game. That cannot be said for (usually) GC, Oaks, and Bay 101, although Oaks can get a bit hairy. It is also worth noting that there are crews who (are rumored to) work the 6/12 games at virtually every casino that spreads it except (to my knowledge) AJs and LC. There was a crew who got busted from Seattle recently who had been traveling up and down the west coast, working casinos the whole way. Usually they had paid off (lol extortionments) staff in the casinos but were also daubing and using signals apparently. This type of stuff does happen out here, and a little skepticism can save you a lot of money if you think something foul is going down. [ QUOTE ] I recently moved to the area and am planning to play some live poker, thanks for any info. [/ QUOTE ] Good luck! Im looking forward to getting your opinion on all the above.
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#16
11-07-2007, 09:34 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
It's a pretty truthful statement. And to be clear, this is "soft" collusion: The regulars in the 15/30 game do not collude explicitly, which would be exploitable, but when they are in the pot against one another, they will typically check it down or play soft, skipping obvious value bets and raises. [/ QUOTE ] I don't have a problem with soft-playing. If two people want to check it down when they're heads up and I'm out of the hand, I don't care. If people are explicitly colluding and chopping profits that would bother me. I'm not an expert on counter-collusion, but I would imagine if people are trying to raise you out of a pot, the counter strategy would be akin to how you would play against a table with maniacs.
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#17
11-07-2007, 09:49 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's a pretty truthful statement. And to be clear, this is "soft" collusion: The regulars in the 15/30 game do not collude explicitly, which would be exploitable, but when they are in the pot against one another, they will typically check it down or play soft, skipping obvious value bets and raises. [/ QUOTE ] I don't have a problem with soft-playing. If two people want to check it down when they're heads up and I'm out of the hand, I don't care. If people are explicitly colluding and chopping profits that would bother me. I'm not an expert on counter-collusion, but I would imagine if people are trying to raise you out of a pot, the counter strategy would be akin to how you would play against a table with maniacs. [/ QUOTE ] Soft playing is not good for the game. Period. >If two people want to check it down when they're heads up and I'm out of the hand, I don't care. You sure about this? Think this through a bit more. Pots that begin three or four handed and grow large on the flop or turn, get heads up on the river, and are either checked down or open folded do not make the game better. This sort of play doesn't happen every single time, but it happens much more frequently in this game than it does in any other mid-limit game in the Bay Area, and the person getting forced out is invariably not a regular. At a minimum, the play in this game is suspicious. Remember, it isn't just impropriety that you need to police, it's also the appearance of impropriety, as it stifles future action. I work in San Bruno, five minutes from AJs, and I would much rather make the long drive down to SJ than play in this game. That may not be worth much, but it sums up my own opinion of this game.
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#18
11-07-2007, 10:17 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
At a minimum, the play in this game is suspicious. Remember, it isn't just impropriety that you need to police, it's also the appearance of impropriety, as it stifles future action. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, I haven't played in a lot of games with soft-playing, but you're right. If it is hurting the action and causing the non-regulars to leave the table, then that's bad for me. I haven't had that problem in other casinos, but then I've only played at Garden City, Bay101 and Lucky Chances.
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#19
11-07-2007, 10:38 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
Soft playing is not good for the game. Period. >If two people want to check it down when they're heads up and I'm out of the hand, I don't care. You sure about this? Think this through a bit more. Pots that begin three or four handed and grow large on the flop or turn, get heads up on the river, and are either checked down or open folded do not make the game better. This sort of play doesn't happen every single time, but it happens much more frequently in this game than it does in any other mid-limit game in the Bay Area, and the person getting forced out is invariably not a regular. At a minimum, the play in this game is suspicious. Remember, it isn't just impropriety that you need to police, it's also the appearance of impropriety, as it stifles future action. I work in San Bruno, five minutes from AJs, and I would much rather make the long drive down to SJ than play in this game. That may not be worth much, but it sums up my own opinion of this game. [/ QUOTE ] If I get to see cards at the end I've got no problems. But I'd be very upset if the river was open folded or some crap like that. I've played in games where players (Asians) would check it down, but legit cards were always shown so I didn't have a problem with it. fwiw, I have heard from other sources that AJ's 15/30 is stechy as hell and don't intend on playing it. Thanks for the info. Do you think 6/12 is legit?
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#20
11-07-2007, 11:09 PM
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Re: Mid Limit Holdem Games in the Bay Area
[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, I have heard from other sources that AJ's 15/30 is stechy as hell and don't intend on playing it. Thanks for the info. Do you think 6/12 is legit? [/ QUOTE ] imo, the 6/12 is entirely legit at AJ & Oaks. its also legit at LC but i havent seen or heard of a decent session there since the 10-10-20 opened up basically. the san jose 6/12 scene is questionable due to relentless rumors of crews and san pablo will strip years off your life just walking in the door.
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Linear Mode
