$3r AA, draw heavy and paired board, standard or not?

owler · #1 08-06-2007, 05:49 PM

no reads on the player, my thought was that there are many hands im ahead (and obv behind any J) but i needed to protect my hand on that board, ofc if he calls my turn bet im prolly behind but i thought if i bet something in turn (to protect from draws) i would be comited to river and there were many cards that i wouldnt like to see.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 (t8255)
Hero (t7050)
MP3 (t12430)
CO (t4915)
Button (t10840)
SB (t1510)
BB (t14180)
UTG (t2575)
UTG+1 (t4825)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to t450, 1 fold, CO calls t450, Button calls t450, 2 folds.

Flop: (t1575) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t875, CO calls t875, Button folds.

Turn: (t3325) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t3600, CO calls t3590 (All-In).

River: (t10515) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t10505

tomek322 · #2 08-06-2007, 05:59 PM

Against two players, I generally puke on boards like this. And am way more prone to checking. If it goes bet call you can safely muck. But I've seen people stack of with any PP because "they put you on AK". So it's mehhh. No reads, typical low buy-in tourney. I check the turn, inducing a bet from a worse hand.

EDIT: I doubt this is a draw. Any draw would most likely raise flop. draws are Axdd, or KQ. I doubt CO has 98. Your turn shove folds out hands you beat and doubles up a jack.

Zizz · #3 08-06-2007, 06:02 PM

I don't think there is a need for the turn bet to be so large. What does that bet accomplish that a smaller bet wouldn't do better? Betting close to half the pot will price out any hands he is drawing with and will chips if he does in fact have the J. Betting close to half the pot also does NOT commit you to the pot. Depending on his action to the bet you will have a good idea if he has the J or not.

ssnyc · #4 08-06-2007, 06:05 PM

yeah..I used to stress more over these boards til I decided to check call a few on dry boards only to see low PPs pushing all in...

owler · #5 08-06-2007, 06:21 PM

the problem with this board is that this isnt a way ahead or way behind situation to go into check call mode because im not way ahead of anything tbh...

do i apply pot control and give free cards or protect myself from draws?

thats the prob because by the river im beat by many hands that i was ahead on flop and turn...

is this a leak line or what? :s

and why couldnt caller have 98s or something like that, it wouldnt be the 1st i see with it ?

tomek322 · #6 08-06-2007, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the problem with this board is that this isnt a way ahead or way behind situation to go into check call mode because im not way ahead of anything tbh...

do i apply pot control and give free cards or protect myself from draws?

thats the prob because by the river im beat by many hands that i was ahead on flop and turn...

is this a leak line or what? :s

and why couldnt caller have 98s or something like that, it wouldnt be the 1st i see with it ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not following. what is the range of hands you put him on? Why does a call on the flop automatically make his hand a draw? From there what are we trying to accomplish by shoving the turn?

themobfather · #7 08-06-2007, 09:14 PM

I think its fine.
Villian only has ~pot left and I'd hate letting him get there for free. 3r he will stack off with lots of hands you beat here.

ssnyc · #8 08-06-2007, 09:58 PM

owler...just had this one...playing a few so can't convert now but take a look as it relates to your post:

PokerStars Game #11349990248: Tournament #57584228, $10+$1 Hold'em No
Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/08/06 - 21:46:17 (ET)
Table '57584228 18' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: YoungunzII (280 in chips)
Seat 2: Simba2006 (1020 in chips)
Seat 3: nellie42 (1840 in chips)
Seat 4: StevieMartin (800 in chips)
Seat 5: GB_in_AZ (2610 in chips)
Seat 6: forsal1234 (1940 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: streeker""x (2490 in chips)
Seat 8: hero (1460 in chips)
Seat 9: gimmenutz13 (1060 in chips)
hero: posts small blind 10
gimmenutz13: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [Kh Ks]
YoungunzII: folds
Simba2006: calls 20
nellie42: calls 20
StevieMartin: calls 20
GB_in_AZ: folds
forsal1234: folds
streeker""x: calls 20
hero: raises 180 to 200
gimmenutz13: folds
Simba2006: calls 180
nellie42: folds
StevieMartin: calls 180
streeker""x: folds
*** FLOP *** [Jh 3s 5s]
forsal1234 has returned
hero: bets 420
Simba2006: raises 400 to 820 and is all-in
StevieMartin: calls 600 and is all-in
hero: calls 400
*** TURN *** [Jh 3s 5s] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [Jh 3s 5s 6s] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hero: shows [Kh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Fives)
Simba2006: shows [Ts Tc] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
hero collected 440 from side pot
StevieMartin: shows [6d 6c] (a full house, Sixes full of Fives)
hero said, "bout right"
StevieMartin collected 2460 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2900 Main pot 2460. Side pot 440. | Rake 0
Board [Jh 3s 5s 6s 5c]
Seat 1: YoungunzII folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Simba2006 showed [Ts Tc] and lost with two pair, Tens and Fives
Seat 3: nellie42 folded before Flop
Seat 4: StevieMartin showed [6d 6c] and won (2460) with a full house,
Sixes full of Fives
Seat 5: GB_in_AZ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: forsal1234 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: streeker""x (button) folded before Flop
Seat 8: hero (small blind) showed [Kh Ks] and won (440) with two
pair, Kings and Fives
Seat 9: gimmenutz13 (big blind) folded before Flop