QQ in extemely bizzare preflop dillema - please advise

aislephive · #1 10-28-2007, 08:04 PM

Initial opener is tight, reraiser is solid as well but not really tight, 18/10 over 80 hands. My image is semi-lag as I've been raising a lot and have been pretty aggressive postflop as well.

Preflop isn't standard exactly, but I felt QQ had more value by calling preflop than reraising against villain's range.

Poker Stars, $200 + $15 NL Hold'em Tournament, 75/150 Blinds, 9 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: 2,320
SB: 5,620
BB: 5,521
UTG: 5,375
UTG+1: 5,083
Hero (UTG+2): 7,180
MP1: 7,973
MP2: 2,933
CO: 3,160

Pre-Flop: (225) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+2)
<font color="red">UTG raises to 450</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls 450, <font color="red">MP1 raises to 1,350</font>, 5 folds, UTG calls 900, Hero ...

What do you think of:

A) Shoving
B) Calling
C) Folding?
D) Other

What do you think of each? This spot is pretty rare and I was really confused on what to do.

TwistedEcho · #2 10-28-2007, 08:05 PM

preflop seems fine, i just jam now since your hand is underrepped and it looks like utg has a decent hand that you beat, and if MP1 has you beat, or UTG is trapping so be it

zizazziza · #3 10-28-2007, 08:52 PM

i vomit and shove. i r/r with QQ pf even if it is UTG raiser for information.

getballed · #4 10-29-2007, 12:14 PM

I shove

PLAYOFFS · #5 10-29-2007, 01:32 PM

..You should have reraised pf and then you might have some better insight than my nostradamic advice...
So MP1 could probably have TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA,AK. It's a close one. There are enough chips in the middle to allow for a push. Would calling to see a low flop be a bad idea? If you push you'll only get called by AK,KK,QQ and JJ maybe. I'd lean towards a call and re-eval on the flop.

mikeJ · #6 10-29-2007, 02:00 PM

Flat call is good pre. Jam now.

BEAN924 · #7 10-29-2007, 02:02 PM

people dont seem to 3bet utg raise and mp call with 1010, or JJ..I think fold.. unless i knew he was crazy aggro..but the call from 1st raiser is rather suspect IMO.. at least AK.. possibly AA,KK ..seems u are in a coinflip or dominated by one or the other.. no way the favorite.

auc hincloss · #8 10-30-2007, 05:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
preflop seems fine, i just jam now since your hand is underrepped and it looks like utg has a decent hand that you beat, and if MP1 has you beat, or UTG is trapping so be it

[/ QUOTE ]

agree, your hand is well disguised in this situation, IMO you are most likely still ahead of UTG and if MP1 has AA or KK so be it, i shove, pretty confident im ahead ina flip.

Crash0veride · #9 10-30-2007, 01:27 PM

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Flat call is good pre. Jam now.

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How is flat calling Pre good, if now you want to Jam. If we're gonna raise, we should do it the first time around.

We're in a terrible spot because MP is never trying to squeeze vs. UTG and UTG+1 Especially if he's "solid".

It's hard to see villain doing this with TT, JJ, although that may be a very small percent of his range.

He's certainly calling a push with his entire range which maybe as narrow as QQ(not likely), KK, AA, AK.
As much as I hate it as well, I don't see how pushing is profitable at all.

aislephive · #10 10-30-2007, 05:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flat call is good pre. Jam now.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is flat calling Pre good, if now you want to Jam. If we're gonna raise, we should do it the first time around.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not good logic. I called preflop to maximize value against UTG's range by disguising my hand. He very well might fold a lot of worse hands if I reraise, but lose a lot of money if I let him see a flop since my hand is so disguised. Just because I'm thinking about shoving now doesn't mean I'd be better off reraising the first time around. They are not mutually exclusive.