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#82
08-18-2007, 08:42 AM
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Re: On Ghosting
[ QUOTE ]
Todd, I totally disagree: trying to enforce the list of things you enumerated is not only impractical, it would criminalize aspects of online poker that are often standard and ethical; measures to enforce those things would have a much worse affect on the legitimacy of the game. [/ QUOTE ] Shane: I agree that what I am suggesting be banned is standard, but here is my reasoning: 1. Allowing backing/swapping creates an opportunity for collusion and multiaccounting, which is the thing that everyone on this thread, for the most part, seems to be against. 2. Even among players with the highest ethical standards, backing and swapping creates conflicts of interest which should not exist, and which may at the very least enter into the minds of those affected. For example, suppose Tony Soprano, known to be an ethical guy, stakes 25 players and plays himself in the 109 rebuy, and insists to all his players that they play as hard as they can against him and each other. Even if every one of Tony's players believes him, when it comes down to a key decision in the tournament where one of his players can knock Tony out, that player is going to at least think about the fact that pissing Tony off could potentially mean the end of the road for that player playing in these tournaments. This should never be on anyone's mind. The same considerations exist, perhaps to a lesser extent, when two players are playing for the same backer. 3. The existence of these backing/swapping arrangements creates the appearance of collusion, which can enter into the minds of the other players and influence their decisions. For example, I was once down to the final 3 in a tournament, with a lot of money at stake, with a well-known pro and one of his horses. I believed, rightly or wrongly, that I was playing against 2 people at that point, and made a deal that I otherwise would not have made. 4. It makes the sport/game/pastime, whatever you want to call it, look bad to those who play and the outsiders we are trying to bring into the game. What would happen if it became known that Lebron James had placed a small wager on the Spurs during the finals (which might explain the Cavs performance, lol)? Or that Tiger Woods was paying Phil Mickelson's expenses because Phil could not afford to do so himself? Yet this is what is commonplace in poker, and it should not be. We should not have to read rumors/speculation that Z had his horses dump chips to him at the $50K HORSE event, or that X dumped chips to Y at the FT of the Bellagio Cup because they had the same backer (which, given the hand, was completely ridiculous since Y was all in on a draw, and in fact they didn't have the same backer). Why do you think enforcing my suggestions would have negative effect on the legitimacy of the game? 
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#83
08-18-2007, 09:03 AM
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Re: On Ghosting
I agree with most people on this topic that any financial interest and ghosting is bad, however as a friend, or a better player ghosting someone of lesser skill, i am in 100% approval for.
The reason i say this is because, I, am ALWAYS the lesser player and the one being ghosted. I believe it IS the best way to teach the game of poker. Sure, the better player and I can discuss specific hands w/e but when ghosting both you and the player ghosting have the same information. When you have the same information you can come up with your OWN decisions and then discuss them. I may think a guy is super tight/aggro when in fact i missed some signals and the person ghosting me believes he weak/tight.. At the moment im not trying to win any huge money, infact i dont care about the $25 i work 2 hours hard for in my $5 sng..the reason im playing is to LEARN and get better, and ghosting IS the best way to learn. my definition of ghosting is "i have AQ here...im thinking about calling his reshove although were approaching the FT bubble, thoughts?" and then the ghoster will offer his advice and thoughts on the hand
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#84
08-18-2007, 09:08 AM
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Re: On Ghosting
[ QUOTE ]
Two breakeven 11rebuy players make the FT of a million dollar tourney and win it with the aid of a backer that is a well known poker superstar. I know people say that mlagoo just went outside and focused by himself, and gobbo will say mlagoo is better than him, it doesn't matter. They admitted to giving advice, and the gobbo/mlagoo shouldn't be viewed any differently than this incident. [/ QUOTE ] dude, seriously, [censored] you. you have no idea what happened that night. i made every single [censored] decision. the fact that you can't wrap your head around the possibility that someone who doesn't regularly play the online majors is capable of making good decisions in a [censored] 20BB game says a lot about your ridiculously overblown ego. i'm glad you got your account closed. you're a [censored] joke. you might be a good poker player, but you're a piece of [censored] human being. cheers, mlagoo
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#86
08-18-2007, 11:17 AM
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Re: On Ghosting
My position remains unchanged and has been spelled out previously. What is right and wrong is not dependent upon, in any way, what is enforceable. It is unethical to take or give advice during a hand, and by explicitly stating it is allowed the poker sites have invited this "grey area" disaster we have found ourselves in.
ONE PLAYER TO A HAND rule eliminates all of this grey area as far as I can tell. Then the problem is not what is right and wrong, only how it can be enforced, if at all. But it does not leave any players in limbo, and pushes the "grey area" cheating to where it should be, clearly against the rules and anyone who does it will know they are a cheater, instead of hearing these lame excuses that we do now.
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#87
08-18-2007, 11:19 AM
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Re: On Ghosting
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ucla, Where are you? Thought you'd be all over this thread. [/ QUOTE ] last night he was high out of his mind, he might be coming down now [/ QUOTE ] I told you last night I have not inhaled (other then contact highs at concerts, I'm going to 311 tonight I'm sure I'll be stoned out of my mind) since I was 15 years old. I'm just high on life man!
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#88
08-18-2007, 11:47 AM
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Re: On Ghosting
[ QUOTE ]
My position remains unchanged and has been spelled out previously. What is right and wrong is not dependent upon, in any way, what is enforceable. It is unethical to take or give advice during a hand, and by explicitly stating it is allowed the poker sites have invited this "grey area" disaster we have found ourselves in. ONE PLAYER TO A HAND rule eliminates all of this grey area as far as I can tell. Then the problem is not what is right and wrong, only how it can be enforced, if at all. But it does not leave any players in limbo, and pushes the "grey area" cheating to where it should be, clearly against the rules and anyone who does it will know they are a cheater, instead of hearing these lame excuses that we do now. [/ QUOTE ] He shoots; he scores!
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#89
08-18-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: On Ghosting
[ QUOTE ]
My position remains unchanged and has been spelled out previously. What is right and wrong is not dependent upon, in any way, what is enforceable. It is unethical to take or give advice during a hand, and by explicitly stating it is allowed the poker sites have invited this "grey area" disaster we have found ourselves in. ONE PLAYER TO A HAND rule eliminates all of this grey area as far as I can tell. Then the problem is not what is right and wrong, only how it can be enforced, if at all. But it does not leave any players in limbo, and pushes the "grey area" cheating to where it should be, clearly against the rules and anyone who does it will know they are a cheater, instead of hearing these lame excuses that we do now. [/ QUOTE ] sounds good to me.
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