Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[crashjr]

[ QUOTE ]
http://forum.absolutepoker.com/lofiv...x.php/f19.html

lol it really seems like absolute is using accounts posing as poker players to do damage control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every poster in that thread save Doug has been a regular on that forum for a long time. Those aren't AP shills, and you would actually be surprised how critical the AP forum regulars are of AP in general. You might also be surprised at the extent to which AP staff ignores its own forum.

[WordWhiz]

I think the latest version of the letter is very good. Perhaps add in that several of these players were massive losers in cash games prior to this software upgrade, and/or that they moved up in stakes. GRAYCAT, e.g., went from dumping buy-ins at 3/6 NL to playing 150/300 limit.

Maybe also an analogy to another sport--"This is like a player who can't get a hit in A ball suddenly leading the league in hitting in the majors."

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Mr. xxxx,

Thank you for contacting us.

At Absolute Poker, we have gone to great lengths to ensure a fair game for the players on our site.

Although we are aware of that this situations exist, we have worked at building our site from the grounds up to ensure that we are able to provide our players with a safe and fun site to play.

You may rest assured that we have developed sophisticated management tools that allow us the highest level of fraud detection available. We are very confident on our security system.

However, if you have a specific stage number you want to report, please feel free to do it to the proper Department at Security@absolutepoker.com or reply to this email and we will gladly forward it to them.

If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Andy
AbsolutePoker ~ VIP Host
VIP@AbsolutePoker.com

Absolute Poker VIP Hosting: Setting The Standard For Online VIP Service


[/ QUOTE ]

i got a little pissed...
[ QUOTE ]

One specific hand isn't enough to show that the player was able to see someone else hole cards. The simple fact that you asked for this information has shattered any credibility that you have left with me.

There are a few suspicious hands, including one where I pushed all in preflop for 6k with K10 (an unusual move) and he called with A2 suited. The most telling thing is the fact, on the river, he raised or bet 41 times to each time he called. This is impossible to do profitably playing the amount of hands he played.

If you guys need someone to explain how pokertracker works and how poker is played let me know, because this is ridiculous.
ikestoys


[/ QUOTE ]

[adanthar]

Thanks to N82 we can now import a bunch of hands into PT. Expect more screenshots shortly.

[teddyFBI]

The only positive thing I can see about keeping Mark Seif's name floating around this scandal is that it might inspire him to actually get out and track down some answers for us, even if he's only acting in his own self-interest to clear his name. In that blog post, he pledged to get to the bottom of this. So while I also urge caution in throwing his name about, if it gets him to champion our cause here, I think it's probably a good thing.

I spent an hour on the phone this morning with Adrian,, an Absolute security supervisor, and was stunned at how LITTLE he knew about the whole investigation. I basically had to walk him through the evidence from square 1. He seemed shockingly uninformed, stubborn, and when you combine these traits with someone whose first language is not English, you get the makings of a very frustrating conversation.

He said, among other things:
a) If they can find evidence of wrongdoing, they will reimburse the aggrieved players.

b) They had yet to find any evidence of impropriety, but that it was a very important issue to them, and that's why they had two (yes TWO!) investigation agents working on the case.

c) He gave my screename to the 2 investigation specialists and they couldn't even find a record of the two of us having played a hand together (ridiculous). I literally had to go into my PT and give him the hand number b/t DOUBLEDRAG and myself to pass along to the investigation guys, whom he would not let me speak with directly because, according to him, they don't even have phones at their desks.

d) I asked him about chip-dumping, he said they hadn't found anything yet, so I gave him the hand number of the doubledrag/romnaldo hands.

Overall, I was left with the impression from my hour-long conversation, not of a company trying desperately to keep the lid on a potentially disastrous situation, but one simply mired in a quagmire of unspeakable incompetence. They're not a team of shady fraudsters, trying to sweep something under the rug -- they're just completely and hopelessly incompetent. Compare this, for example, to my intimate familiarity with the security dept. at Stars -- most people know of my saga with them, but even when they falsely accused my mom of being a bot, their emails were smart, articulate, and even the culprit over at Stars who had F'd up (Jeff) was very, very well-versed in internet security (he's said by many to probably be the smartest in the biz at bot-detection techniques, which despite his F-up in my mom's case, I believe.)
The folks over at Absolute, on the other hand, are as bush league as they come. Even Adrian, an alleged SUPERVISOR, couldn't follow some very basic inquiries such as what classic chip-dumping looks like, or why there's a difference between a bad player getting lucky, and one exhibiting the tell-tale signs of a cheater, like the DoubleDrag clan.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe also an analogy to another sport--"This is like a player who can't get a hit in A ball suddenly leading the league in hitting in the majors."

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be careful here. This isn't about how the guy is running or how much he's winning. Lots of people are terrible and win at stakes way above their skill level for a period of time. This is about how the guy is *playing*.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to N82 we can now import a bunch of hands into PT. Expect more screenshots shortly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ship it

[ikestoys]

ok i'll start a new summary now...

pineapple - i'm not a really a fan of the summary, its too disjointed and includes some things that aren't really proven

[darkcore]

[ QUOTE ]
http://forum.absolutepoker.com/lofiv...x.php/f19.html

lol it really seems like absolute is using accounts posing as poker players to do damage control.

[/ QUOTE ]

i never read the absolute forum, but while i did read various threads on various poker forum about this topic during the last days i had exactly this suspicon on various occassions.

too bad there is no way for us to prove this.

//edit

thanks n82 for all your effort. can't wait to see more stats.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the latest version of the letter is very good. Perhaps add in that several of these players were massive losers in cash games prior to this software upgrade, and/or that they moved up in stakes. GRAYCAT, e.g., went from dumping buy-ins at 3/6 NL to playing 150/300 limit.

Maybe also an analogy to another sport--"This is like a player who can't get a hit in A ball suddenly leading the league in hitting in the majors."

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, and good suggestions.

V1.2:

SECURITY FLAW AT ABSOLUTE POKER

Shortly after a recent software upgrade at Absolute Poker, several accounts with suspicious names and identical maniacal playing styles sat down at the highest-stakes games offered there, where tens of thousands of dollars change hands every hour.

The established high-stakes online players quickly noticed these "maniac" players at the tables, and lined up to get a chance to take their money.

Amazingly, the top online pros in the world all lost money to these players, at an incredibly fast rate.

Since these pros understand poker and statistics better than you or I ever will, they used various software tools to analyze how they could have fared better against these maniacs.

All of them came to the same conclusion: the only possible way these maniacs could have won money is if they could see their opponent's cards.

Now, there have been many, many people claiming "online poker is rigged" ever since it started. And these claims have always been dismissed easily and quickly by the statistics experts.

This time was different. The high-stakes players posted their findings on various online poker forums, and other experts who were not directly involved quickly validated their findings.

One thing stood out above all others. On the last round of betting (after all the cards had been dealt out), the suspicious accounts always raised or folded - they never simply called a bet. While some players with aggressive playing styles will often raise or fold, it is unheard of to *never* call. "The only time it makes any sense to never call in these spots is if you know if you are ahead or behind-- in other words, if you know your opponent's hole cards," said OnlinePro1. "These maniacs made the right decision in these spots dozens of times in a row. They were never wrong. This is as close to impossible as you can get," said OnlinePro2.

Others investigated these mystery players and found even more evidence:

- The maniacs had been "chip dumping", intentionally losing to other accounts as a way to try to launder their ill-gotten gains
- They had finished either dead last or in first place in a whole series of large online tournaments, another hugely improbable statistical anomaly, in an apparent attempt to cover their tracks
- Before the software upgrade, these maniacs had been huge money losers at the low-stakes games, in another apparent attempt to cover their tracks. "Suddenly they jump up to the highest-stakes games, and never lose a pot," said OnlinePro3. "It's like the worst hitter on a high school baseball team jumping to the majors and hitting 50 home runs," said OnlinePro4.

To any thinking player who has reviewed this evidence, the conclusion is clear and inescapable: Absolute Poker's server security has been compromised.

Now, this isn't a reason for anyone to conclude that "online poker is rigged" in general. This appears to be an isolated incident at a single online site (although highly unfortunate for the honest players involved who lost money). Absolute Poker has already suspended the accounts of these maniacs, and claims to be conducting a full investigation.

In the name of fairness, and to reassure the poker community about the safety of play at Absolute Poker and at other online poker sites, we call on Absolute Poker to remiburse the players who lost money to these scam artists, to publish a full analysis of the security leaks and how they have been sealed, and to commission a third-party audit of their internal security systems.